6 ms·

Parody is considered to be "fair use". Commercials aren't. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Fair_use_and_parody http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Fair

Parody is considered to be "fair use". Commercials aren't. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Fair_use_and_parody http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Fair_use_and_parody Actually copyright laws were pretty clear, we just had massive regression due to intense lobbying of greedy entities.

tmh88j 14y ago
>Parody is considered to be "fair use". Commercials aren't. How about when parodies generate money? Weird Al made millions doing that.
- imgabe 14y ago
  Did Weird Al pay royalties to the songwriters for covering their songs? By law (in the US at least) you're allowed to cover any song as long as you pay the statutory royalties (or a lesser amount if you can negotiate that)
- Shivetya 14y ago
  Many of the parodies I see on the net keep the original song or lyrics. Weird Al keeps most of the original musical sound but not the lyrics. So how do you parody a music video without changing the song? Does fair use of the music video via parody give you right to use the music behind it intact? (color me confused)
  - 1123581321 14y ago
    You can make money from a parody and make any parody you want. However, in the case of a music video, the video and the song are separate entities, so to avoid the license question the parody would have to change the music as well. I'm not sure where the line is, but for example, the "Opan Chomsky Style" line in the MIT video would certainly not be enough to make the song a parody. "Mitt Romney Style" would certainly be considered a fair use parody and since the video was also parody, the need to license was avoided. It would be interesting to know at which point a video soundtrack becomes separately copyrighted video. Does the process and order of creation matter or is a song a separate work by definition? Is it possible to merge video and music rights into one right?
    - pflats 14y ago
      >"Mitt Romney Style" would certainly be considered a fair use parody and since the video was also parody, the need to license was avoided. This is far from a certainty. In fact, the court could very well rule against College Humor et. al. if Psy and his folks chose to press the issue. The major issue here is the legal difference between parody vs. satire. In parody, you're using Psy's own work to criticize Psy. In satire, you're using Psy's work to mock someone unrelated (i.e. Gov. Romney). Excerpting from page 2 of http://apps.americanbar.org/litigation/committees/intellectual/roundtables/0506_outline.pdf http://apps.americanbar.org/litigation/committees/intellectu..., emphasis mine. "[i]f the new work “has no critical bearing on the substance or style of the original composition, which the alleged infringer merely uses to get attention” [...] the work is less tansformative, and other fair use factors [...], loom larger. [...] [A] parody targets and mimics the original work to make its point, [while] a satire uses the work to criticize something else, and therefore requires justification for the very act of borrowing." But like everything in the legal system, it's in shades of grey. "A parody that more loosely targets an original [...] may still be sufficiently aimed at an original work to come within our analysis of parody. If a parody [...] runs the risk of serving as a substitute for the original or licensed derivatives [...] it is more incumbent on one claiming fair use to establish the extent of transformation." I think there's a strong argument that an English-languge parody on a stremaing video site that gets money for its adroll could be a replacement for the Korean-language (or theoretical officially-licensed English-language) song on a streaming video site that gets money for its adroll. I, of course, am not a lawer. If I was in the business of using copyrighted works in what is legally defined as satire, I'd be playing it very carefully. Psy has (seemingly) no interest in suing these people, and is probably a safe bet. I'd be a lot more careful about using a Ted Nugent song to support single-payer healthcare. In the end, the American Bar document (http://apps.americanbar.org/litigation/committees/intellectual/roundtables/0506_outline.pdf http://apps.americanbar.org/litigation/committees/intellectu...) is a really interesting read if you do care about what could qualify as fair use and what might not. edit: in fact, what the heck, I'll submit it as a story. (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4905613 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4905613)
      - 1123581321 14y ago
- dschep 14y ago
  Regardless of fair use, Weird Al gets permission: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weird_al#Reactions_from_original_artists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weird_al#Reactions_from_origin...
  - tmh88j 14y ago
    He didn't get permission from Coolio >I ain't with that…I think that my song was too serious…I really…don't appreciate him desecrating the song like that… his record company asked for my permission, and I said no. But they did it anyway… http://splitsider.com/2011/12/gangstas-parodist-revisiting-weird-al-vs-coolio/ http://splitsider.com/2011/12/gangstas-parodist-revisiting-w...
    - bjourne 14y ago
      Possibly because Gansta Paradise already is a poor version of Stevie Wonder's Pasttime Paradise? Musicians borrow from each other, always have always will.
    - illuminate 14y ago
      "He didn't get permission from Coolio" He received permission from Coolio's record company.
- deelowe 14y ago
  Why would that make a difference? Laws don't typically include an "unless you make money from it" clause.
  - danielweber 14y ago
    Your infringement being of a commercial nature is one of the four tests of Fair Use.
saurik 14y ago
A) If you accept this argument premise, then you violate the assumption that PSY is "ignoring copyright infringement" in the first place. B) Using the music verbatim but changing only the video content to make a parody would probably not hold up as "fair use".
- PerryCox 14y ago
  >Using the music verbatim but changing only the video content to make a parody would probably not hold up as "fair use". Weird Al rerecords the music, but the notes are the same and that is considered fair use. I know that Weird Al ask for permission from artist before releasing any songs, but it's not something he is required to do.
  - saurik 14y ago
    Recording your own performance from the same sheet music and "using the music verbatim" (in which context I meant using the "audio" verbatim, while changing only the "video") are fundamentally different situations.
    - Natsu 14y ago
      Both halves are copyrighted, though. Musical works have copyrights that are independent of the copyrights on any particular recording thereof. Ref: http://www.masurlaw.com/3980/songs-and-records-two-types-of-music-copyrights/ http://www.masurlaw.com/3980/songs-and-records-two-types-of-...
      - saurik 14y ago
        Right; however, with a parody of the sheet music that you recorded yourself you have fair use on the sheet music and no concerns about the recording. If you want to do a parody of the recording from the substantively the same sheet music, you may or may not be able to get by with nothing, but you would almost certainly be ok with a mechanical license, which the studio is required to give you for a known (small) fee. In comparison, if you want to do a parody of a music video--a work that is considered to be on top of the music piece, as opposed to included with it, and thereby requiring a special "synchronization license" to make--using the original recording (which obviously implies the original sheet music), you are then going to have to negotiate with the studio, and they may simply not have any internal mechanism by which you can license it at all (even if individuals there think it makes sense).
Jach 14y ago
Parody commercials (and indeed t.v. shows) are just fine, however. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_night_live http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_night_live
bjourne 14y ago
For the record (hah) "Fair use" is only a legal concept in the US. Other jurisdictions sometimes have analogies to Fair use, like the right for journalists to quote parts of a text. But those rights are much more limited. There is also no DMCA which means site owners are responsible for the content users may publish.

tmh88j 14y ago

>Parody is considered to be "fair use". Commercials aren't. How about when parodies generate money? Weird Al made millions doing that.

imgabe 14y ago
Did Weird Al pay royalties to the songwriters for covering their songs? By law (in the US at least) you're allowed to cover any song as long as you pay the statutory royalties (or a lesser amount if you can negotiate that)
Shivetya 14y ago
Many of the parodies I see on the net keep the original song or lyrics. Weird Al keeps most of the original musical sound but not the lyrics. So how do you parody a music video without changing the song? Does fair use of the music video via parody give you right to use the music behind it intact? (color me confused)
- 1123581321 14y ago
  You can make money from a parody and make any parody you want. However, in the case of a music video, the video and the song are separate entities, so to avoid the license question the parody would have to change the music as well. I'm not sure where the line is, but for example, the "Opan Chomsky Style" line in the MIT video would certainly not be enough to make the song a parody. "Mitt Romney Style" would certainly be considered a fair use parody and since the video was also parody, the need to license was avoided. It would be interesting to know at which point a video soundtrack becomes separately copyrighted video. Does the process and order of creation matter or is a song a separate work by definition? Is it possible to merge video and music rights into one right?
  - pflats 14y ago
    >"Mitt Romney Style" would certainly be considered a fair use parody and since the video was also parody, the need to license was avoided. This is far from a certainty. In fact, the court could very well rule against College Humor et. al. if Psy and his folks chose to press the issue. The major issue here is the legal difference between parody vs. satire. In parody, you're using Psy's own work to criticize Psy. In satire, you're using Psy's work to mock someone unrelated (i.e. Gov. Romney). Excerpting from page 2 of http://apps.americanbar.org/litigation/committees/intellectual/roundtables/0506_outline.pdf http://apps.americanbar.org/litigation/committees/intellectu..., emphasis mine. "[i]f the new work “has no critical bearing on the substance or style of the original composition, which the alleged infringer merely uses to get attention” [...] the work is less tansformative, and other fair use factors [...], loom larger. [...] [A] parody targets and mimics the original work to make its point, [while] a satire uses the work to criticize something else, and therefore requires justification for the very act of borrowing." But like everything in the legal system, it's in shades of grey. "A parody that more loosely targets an original [...] may still be sufficiently aimed at an original work to come within our analysis of parody. If a parody [...] runs the risk of serving as a substitute for the original or licensed derivatives [...] it is more incumbent on one claiming fair use to establish the extent of transformation." I think there's a strong argument that an English-languge parody on a stremaing video site that gets money for its adroll could be a replacement for the Korean-language (or theoretical officially-licensed English-language) song on a streaming video site that gets money for its adroll. I, of course, am not a lawer. If I was in the business of using copyrighted works in what is legally defined as satire, I'd be playing it very carefully. Psy has (seemingly) no interest in suing these people, and is probably a safe bet. I'd be a lot more careful about using a Ted Nugent song to support single-payer healthcare. In the end, the American Bar document (http://apps.americanbar.org/litigation/committees/intellectual/roundtables/0506_outline.pdf http://apps.americanbar.org/litigation/committees/intellectu...) is a really interesting read if you do care about what could qualify as fair use and what might not. edit: in fact, what the heck, I'll submit it as a story. (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4905613 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4905613)
    - 1123581321 14y ago
dschep 14y ago
Regardless of fair use, Weird Al gets permission: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weird_al#Reactions_from_original_artists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weird_al#Reactions_from_origin...
- tmh88j 14y ago
  He didn't get permission from Coolio >I ain't with that…I think that my song was too serious…I really…don't appreciate him desecrating the song like that… his record company asked for my permission, and I said no. But they did it anyway… http://splitsider.com/2011/12/gangstas-parodist-revisiting-weird-al-vs-coolio/ http://splitsider.com/2011/12/gangstas-parodist-revisiting-w...
  - bjourne 14y ago
    Possibly because Gansta Paradise already is a poor version of Stevie Wonder's Pasttime Paradise? Musicians borrow from each other, always have always will.
  - illuminate 14y ago
    "He didn't get permission from Coolio" He received permission from Coolio's record company.
deelowe 14y ago
Why would that make a difference? Laws don't typically include an "unless you make money from it" clause.
- danielweber 14y ago
  Your infringement being of a commercial nature is one of the four tests of Fair Use.

saurik 14y ago

A) If you accept this argument premise, then you violate the assumption that PSY is "ignoring copyright infringement" in the first place. B) Using the music verbatim but changing only the video content to make a parody would probably not hold up as "fair use".

PerryCox 14y ago
>Using the music verbatim but changing only the video content to make a parody would probably not hold up as "fair use". Weird Al rerecords the music, but the notes are the same and that is considered fair use. I know that Weird Al ask for permission from artist before releasing any songs, but it's not something he is required to do.
- saurik 14y ago
  Recording your own performance from the same sheet music and "using the music verbatim" (in which context I meant using the "audio" verbatim, while changing only the "video") are fundamentally different situations.
  - Natsu 14y ago
    Both halves are copyrighted, though. Musical works have copyrights that are independent of the copyrights on any particular recording thereof. Ref: http://www.masurlaw.com/3980/songs-and-records-two-types-of-music-copyrights/ http://www.masurlaw.com/3980/songs-and-records-two-types-of-...
    - saurik 14y ago
      Right; however, with a parody of the sheet music that you recorded yourself you have fair use on the sheet music and no concerns about the recording. If you want to do a parody of the recording from the substantively the same sheet music, you may or may not be able to get by with nothing, but you would almost certainly be ok with a mechanical license, which the studio is required to give you for a known (small) fee. In comparison, if you want to do a parody of a music video--a work that is considered to be on top of the music piece, as opposed to included with it, and thereby requiring a special "synchronization license" to make--using the original recording (which obviously implies the original sheet music), you are then going to have to negotiate with the studio, and they may simply not have any internal mechanism by which you can license it at all (even if individuals there think it makes sense).

Jach 14y ago

Parody commercials (and indeed t.v. shows) are just fine, however. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_night_live http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_night_live

bjourne 14y ago

For the record (hah) "Fair use" is only a legal concept in the US. Other jurisdictions sometimes have analogies to Fair use, like the right for journalists to quote parts of a text. But those rights are much more limited. There is also no DMCA which means site owners are responsible for the content users may publish.