4 ms·

I never found programming agonizing.

marginalia_nu 2mo ago
Yeah same. I've been doing this for fun since I was like 9 years old. 30 years later it's still fun.
giancarlostoro 2mo ago
You must not talk to other developers ;) But seriously, sometimes its not the code, it's the human factor that's painful, other times, well it's JavaScript.
- RattlesnakeJake 2mo ago
  Or at least the culture around JavaScript . I love writing JavaScript. I like React well enough. I'm not sold on NodeJS, though I'll accept that its struggles are no different than any other package manager. I just wish the whole thing would stand still for a minute. It's seriously exhausting to keep up with all of the deprecations, rewrites, new "best" frameworks, etc.
  - Toutouxc 2mo ago
    How is Node a package manager?
    - RattlesnakeJake 2mo ago
      Fair. NPM is the part I actually distrust. That said, I'm not sure it's necessary to make a distinction. I can't imagine many teams are using NodeJS (particularly with React or the like) without buying into the package ecosystem.
sigilsack 2mo ago
[dead]
tombert 2mo ago
I mostly find programming fun, I’ve been doing it most of my life, but I will admit that engineering can be pretty agonizing. I enjoy the stuff, I enjoy the algorithmic stuff, and I enjoy implementing the math and algorithms, but that’s only about half of any programming job I have had. I derive zero enjoyment from Kubernetes configs, or Terraform, or fucking around with log settings, or screwing around with all the knobs for Kafka. That stuff is agonizing.
- skydhash 2mo ago
  > I derive zero enjoyment from Kubernetes configs, or Terraform, or fucking around with log settings, or screwing around with all the knobs for Kafka. That stuff is agonizing. The click for me was thinking in terms of outcomes and system dynamics. So I make sure to get a good understanding of the final state. Tweaking without a goal is just playing around, or joyless work if you do not enjoy the process.
  - tombert 2mo ago
    I suppose. I guess programming to me was always an excuse to do math, not necessarily to build products.
    - mr_mitm 2mo ago
      I take it you aren't programming business CRUD apps? I almost never have to do any math. It would be a delight if I did.
      - tombert 2mo ago
        I certainly have done my time with writing CRUD apps, but for the last decade or so, I've primarily focused on distributed systems stuff (usually involving Kafka or ZeroMQ or something), which is a bit more architecturey and I occasionally get to do some fun concurrency theory. But when doing the more boring CRUD stuff I historically have gotten my math kicks out of playing with functional languages. I got into Haskell pretty early because I liked the idea that the type system felt pretty mathy.
jimbokun 2mo ago
Never? Never some intractable bug, that didn't seem to have any relation to the source code you're reading?
- BadBadJellyBean 2mo ago
  I rarely had them and if I did I enjoyed the hunt. I enjoy tracing through all the layers.
adamgordonbell 2mo ago
To me frustration and excitement are related. I've never punched the air after fixing some bug that I didn't at some point earlier get extremely frustrated at its intractability.

Yeah same. I've been doing this for fun since I was like 9 years old. 30 years later it's still fun.

You must not talk to other developers ;) But seriously, sometimes its not the code, it's the human factor that's painful, other times, well it's JavaScript.

RattlesnakeJake 2mo ago
Or at least the culture around JavaScript . I love writing JavaScript. I like React well enough. I'm not sold on NodeJS, though I'll accept that its struggles are no different than any other package manager. I just wish the whole thing would stand still for a minute. It's seriously exhausting to keep up with all of the deprecations, rewrites, new "best" frameworks, etc.
- Toutouxc 2mo ago
  How is Node a package manager?
  - RattlesnakeJake 2mo ago
    Fair. NPM is the part I actually distrust. That said, I'm not sure it's necessary to make a distinction. I can't imagine many teams are using NodeJS (particularly with React or the like) without buying into the package ecosystem.

sigilsack 2mo ago

[dead]

tombert 2mo ago

I mostly find programming fun, I’ve been doing it most of my life, but I will admit that engineering can be pretty agonizing. I enjoy the stuff, I enjoy the algorithmic stuff, and I enjoy implementing the math and algorithms, but that’s only about half of any programming job I have had. I derive zero enjoyment from Kubernetes configs, or Terraform, or fucking around with log settings, or screwing around with all the knobs for Kafka. That stuff is agonizing.

skydhash 2mo ago
> I derive zero enjoyment from Kubernetes configs, or Terraform, or fucking around with log settings, or screwing around with all the knobs for Kafka. That stuff is agonizing. The click for me was thinking in terms of outcomes and system dynamics. So I make sure to get a good understanding of the final state. Tweaking without a goal is just playing around, or joyless work if you do not enjoy the process.
- tombert 2mo ago
  I suppose. I guess programming to me was always an excuse to do math, not necessarily to build products.
  - mr_mitm 2mo ago
    I take it you aren't programming business CRUD apps? I almost never have to do any math. It would be a delight if I did.
    - tombert 2mo ago
      I certainly have done my time with writing CRUD apps, but for the last decade or so, I've primarily focused on distributed systems stuff (usually involving Kafka or ZeroMQ or something), which is a bit more architecturey and I occasionally get to do some fun concurrency theory. But when doing the more boring CRUD stuff I historically have gotten my math kicks out of playing with functional languages. I got into Haskell pretty early because I liked the idea that the type system felt pretty mathy.

jimbokun 2mo ago

Never? Never some intractable bug, that didn't seem to have any relation to the source code you're reading?

BadBadJellyBean 2mo ago
I rarely had them and if I did I enjoyed the hunt. I enjoy tracing through all the layers.

adamgordonbell 2mo ago

To me frustration and excitement are related. I've never punched the air after fixing some bug that I didn't at some point earlier get extremely frustrated at its intractability.