3 ms·

Any examples of nations that succeeded in this regard? (currently corruption-free states)

by txzl 2mo ago

mschuster91 2mo ago
Former Yugoslavia. From what I hear from my parents' generation, you couldn't do anything or it would take a serious amount of time without bakshish, today it' pretty frowned upon, at least in the EU countries. Serbia and Bosnia are a different game...
jwr 2mo ago
Poland, while not entirely corruption-free, has managed very well after the transition from Russian-dominated communism. For reasons I still do not understand, organized crime was rooted out in the 90s, and gambling restricted to almost nothingness (gambling is always tied to organized crime). Not perfect, but doing pretty well, and the effects can be seen.
- Tade0 2mo ago
  Part of the reason was putting into law the option to become a crown witness, famously used by Jarosław "Masa" Sokołowski. In my view what really did them in was Poland's EU accession later on. It gave young men alternatives to joining organised crime as foot soldiers. Of course many criminals emigrated as well, but on foreign turf they weren't nearly as successful. Right now it's demographics, with the average age of a felon going from ~20 to ~34 between 2000 and now. These people focus on e-commerce scams.
distances 2mo ago
All countries distancing themselves from Russia and aligning with the EU have managed to reduce corruption. It's a winning formula, so will very likely happen with Ukraine too after the corrupting Russian influence is eradicated.
- spwa4 2mo ago
  As someone whose worked as a consultant for the EU for years, eventually realizing who the sales people of my company were (... related to), I wonder what you mean. I really wonder what you mean. Government spending is how the Brussels economy works (there's technically 11 and in practice about 7 different governments, all of whom have similar needs), and you get government spending assigned to you by "knowing" government deciders ...
  - distances 2mo ago
    > I wonder what you mean I thought I was clear? I mean the western corruption isn't in any shape or form comparable to Russian corruption, and how it pervaded all the Eastern Bloc. It does take long time to root it out, as it affects and degrades the whole society. You really, really can't compare it to what we have in the west, and everybody is better off when they get to escape it.
    - owebmaster 2mo ago
      > I mean the western corruption isn't in any shape or form comparable to Russian corruption Is this good or bad? Is Russian corruption much worse or much better in the Epstein scale of corruption?
      - bulbar 2mo ago
        Yes, Russian corruption is much worse. You only know about Epstein because there wasn't enough corruption to hide it indefinitely. Dozens of people where murdered by Putin for merely speaking out against him. Corruption is also much more normalized in Russia. Bureaucrats will casually take money to work your case faster (or at all). I know that from old friends as they had to bribe people to get their case processed a few years ago (before Russia started the war).
        owebmaster 2mo ago
        The fact that we know about the Epstein cases didn't change a thing, the people are still in power, there is no scenario that could be worse than that. Are you from the US?
ur-whale 2mo ago
> Any examples of nations that succeeded in this regard? (currently corruption-free states) It's all a matter of degrees of course, but Singapore and Switzerland spring to mind. I'm not claiming either is corruption-free (there is no such thing unfortunately), but in terms of comparables, it's night and day between these nations and many other countries.

Any examples of nations that succeeded in this regard? (currently corruption-free states)

by txzl 2mo ago

Any examples of nations that succeeded in this regard? (currently corruption-free states)

Former Yugoslavia. From what I hear from my parents' generation, you couldn't do anything or it would take a serious amount of time without bakshish, today it' pretty frowned upon, at least in the EU countries. Serbia and Bosnia are a different game...

jwr 2mo ago

Poland, while not entirely corruption-free, has managed very well after the transition from Russian-dominated communism. For reasons I still do not understand, organized crime was rooted out in the 90s, and gambling restricted to almost nothingness (gambling is always tied to organized crime). Not perfect, but doing pretty well, and the effects can be seen.

Tade0 2mo ago
Part of the reason was putting into law the option to become a crown witness, famously used by Jarosław "Masa" Sokołowski. In my view what really did them in was Poland's EU accession later on. It gave young men alternatives to joining organised crime as foot soldiers. Of course many criminals emigrated as well, but on foreign turf they weren't nearly as successful. Right now it's demographics, with the average age of a felon going from ~20 to ~34 between 2000 and now. These people focus on e-commerce scams.

distances 2mo ago

All countries distancing themselves from Russia and aligning with the EU have managed to reduce corruption. It's a winning formula, so will very likely happen with Ukraine too after the corrupting Russian influence is eradicated.

spwa4 2mo ago
As someone whose worked as a consultant for the EU for years, eventually realizing who the sales people of my company were (... related to), I wonder what you mean. I really wonder what you mean. Government spending is how the Brussels economy works (there's technically 11 and in practice about 7 different governments, all of whom have similar needs), and you get government spending assigned to you by "knowing" government deciders ...
- distances 2mo ago
  > I wonder what you mean I thought I was clear? I mean the western corruption isn't in any shape or form comparable to Russian corruption, and how it pervaded all the Eastern Bloc. It does take long time to root it out, as it affects and degrades the whole society. You really, really can't compare it to what we have in the west, and everybody is better off when they get to escape it.
  - owebmaster 2mo ago
    > I mean the western corruption isn't in any shape or form comparable to Russian corruption Is this good or bad? Is Russian corruption much worse or much better in the Epstein scale of corruption?
    - bulbar 2mo ago
      Yes, Russian corruption is much worse. You only know about Epstein because there wasn't enough corruption to hide it indefinitely. Dozens of people where murdered by Putin for merely speaking out against him. Corruption is also much more normalized in Russia. Bureaucrats will casually take money to work your case faster (or at all). I know that from old friends as they had to bribe people to get their case processed a few years ago (before Russia started the war).
      - owebmaster 2mo ago
        The fact that we know about the Epstein cases didn't change a thing, the people are still in power, there is no scenario that could be worse than that. Are you from the US?

ur-whale 2mo ago

> Any examples of nations that succeeded in this regard? (currently corruption-free states) It's all a matter of degrees of course, but Singapore and Switzerland spring to mind. I'm not claiming either is corruption-free (there is no such thing unfortunately), but in terms of comparables, it's night and day between these nations and many other countries.