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My experience - in the Nordics, but this is transferable - is they are also much nicer to own and drive. I don’t know anyone who went electric and then went ba

My experience - in the Nordics, but this is transferable - is they are also much nicer to own and drive. I don’t know anyone who went electric and then went back. The generation who went electric a few years ago is now on their second or third electric car. The makes and models in favour is changing (cue tangent on Tesla brand death in Europe) but the power source choice is not. So as more people get one, I expect their market share to just climb and climb.

zdragnar 3mo ago
Depends on who you ask, I suppose. One study in the last year showed only around 1% of EV owners in the US planned to go back to gas for their next car. A different study showed that number was actually 46%. Yet another said it was actually 22%. I'm inclined to think the number is closer to the higher end, at least in the US. There's still a lot of areas where the charging infrastructure is awful, and if you live in an apartment or are traveling, that's an important consideration. Another is the insurance premium cost, due to the expense of replacing batteries. I imagine these issues will continue to be less challenging for people over time, as more second hand batteries, recycling and infrastructure continues to expand. Even at current gas prices, though, it didn't make financial sense for my family when we traded in a car two months back.
- seanmcdirmid 3mo ago
  > Depends on who you ask, I suppose. One study in the last year showed only around 1% of EV owners in the US planned to go back to gas for their next car. A different study showed that number was actually 46%. Yet another said it was actually 22% There is a lot of crap going around on Facebook that takes a highly qualified study, they take a fact like “90% of Tesla owners who get rid of their Tesla after one year go back to gasoline cars.” And they twist into “90% of EV owners go back to gasoline cars”. And you know, it’s Facebook, people read the facts that reinforce their biases, they aren’t actually looking for useful high quality information.
BoxwoodSeed 3mo ago
EVs are great in, say, Norway. But the population of the country Norway isn't even half that of the city Tokyo. Less people means less cars on the street which translates to less cars using up charging stations. Once things get crowded and you have to wait in line to get your vehicle charged, it becomes a bit annoying.
- plusmax1 3mo ago
  Well, I live in one of the most densely populated places, the Netherlands. This is not an issue I've encountered. The solution really is : just add more charging spots everywhere. Electric infrastructure is everywhere, charging spots don't need to be concentrated near a gas station. Here in the Netherlands they are everywhere. You just have to get into the habit of using them more often for smaller periods of time instead of habitually going to a gas station.
  - BoxwoodSeed 3mo ago
    It is indeed an infrastructure problem, but the infrastructure has to come first.
plusmax1 3mo ago
I totally agree, I went electric last year and couldn't be happier. Got a hyundai ioniq 6 which is an amazing car. Charging is simple and cheap and where I live (nw europe) the charging infrastructure is great. Did a couple of long range road trips (germany, france) and fast chargers were easy to find. Take a small break, have a coffee and the car was already full again. I had some anxiety about this before, but this has 100% better than I was expecting. The best thing is, at least here, there are so many "small" charging spots. If you take them into account when traveling to places (even the grocery store, or the museum, or near whatever relative or friend you are visiting), you can just charge cheaply there. This is the hardest habit for me to break: no, i don't need to visit a "gas station" to fill up, just charge wherever you can find a charger, and it doesnt have to be 100%. Even a short stop on a slower charging spot helps a lot.
jjav 3mo ago
> I don’t know anyone who went electric and then went back. Seriously? EVs have many practical advantages. Don't need to list them here, we all know. But they are so, so, so boring. Zero soul, zero character. Perfect appliance, zero passion. Sometimes in life, passion matters too. I like an EV for city commuting because commuting is boring no matter what so it's a good fit. But for when I want to feel alive and drive (cue up Red Barchetta by Rush), no EV will ever do.
- Gys 3mo ago
  Back in the day, in my EU country, everybody drove shift gear. Automatic gear was frowned upon. Nowadays everybody drives automatic. People like ‘boring’ comfort, it shows everywhere.
  - RhysU 3mo ago
    The Manual Gearbox Preservation Society (https://tmgps.org/ https://tmgps.org/) is a notable counterexample. I look forward to teaching my kids to drive stick. Stick makes driving more engaging then automatic's point-and-go. Engagement breeds attentivity. Texting while driving stick is obviously decreased because both hands are actively required to drive. None of their friends will be able to drive my manual car. I don't know why anyone would hand their kid the keys to an automatic given its downsides.
    - wood_spirit 3mo ago
      Likely your kids cars will drive themselves?
    - jfengel 3mo ago
      I had no trouble managing my mug of coffee while driving stick. (Before cupholders were universal, and before texting). It required some deft coordination to get out of the parking spot and getting up to speed, but I spent most of my time in fifth gear and staying there. One hand is just as free as it is in an automatic. Texting while driving remains a bad idea, but I don't think a stick shift would prevent it. I could have managed to text just as well as I managed drinking coffee.
euroderf 3mo ago
If electric lawnmowers offered the same value, operational convenience, and maintainability (compared to gas-powered mowers) as electric cars do, they'd sell like hotcakes. Two-stroke engines are a PITA.
- ZeroGravitas 3mo ago
  I thought this already happened? I kept seeing YouTube videos of people reviewing electric chainsaws or snowblowers or whatever and apologizing to their core audience that they weren't woke Democrats, it was just a better tool for many uses.
  - hellisothers 3mo ago
    This definitely happened, all my yard/lawn items (mower, chainsaws, hedgers, etc) are all battery. So much better.
    - euroderf 3mo ago
      I can see a hedger working - even with a klunky battery making it a bit unwieldy. But chainsaws and mowers need serious torque - don't so don't they need to stay plugged in while you work ?
      - rascul 3mo ago
        There are some decent battery electric mowers and chainsaws that can be great as long as you have the batteries to keep them going long enough.
      - maxerickson 3mo ago
        I have an Ego pushmower. It takes like 2/3 of a charge to mow my lawn, with a 4 year old 5 amp hour battery. I'm not saving money over gas, but I'm not spending a whole lot more and the lack of hassle is fantastic. If I had a bigger yard I would hesitate to have lots of batteries or whatever.

zdragnar 3mo ago

Depends on who you ask, I suppose. One study in the last year showed only around 1% of EV owners in the US planned to go back to gas for their next car. A different study showed that number was actually 46%. Yet another said it was actually 22%. I'm inclined to think the number is closer to the higher end, at least in the US. There's still a lot of areas where the charging infrastructure is awful, and if you live in an apartment or are traveling, that's an important consideration. Another is the insurance premium cost, due to the expense of replacing batteries. I imagine these issues will continue to be less challenging for people over time, as more second hand batteries, recycling and infrastructure continues to expand. Even at current gas prices, though, it didn't make financial sense for my family when we traded in a car two months back.

seanmcdirmid 3mo ago
> Depends on who you ask, I suppose. One study in the last year showed only around 1% of EV owners in the US planned to go back to gas for their next car. A different study showed that number was actually 46%. Yet another said it was actually 22% There is a lot of crap going around on Facebook that takes a highly qualified study, they take a fact like “90% of Tesla owners who get rid of their Tesla after one year go back to gasoline cars.” And they twist into “90% of EV owners go back to gasoline cars”. And you know, it’s Facebook, people read the facts that reinforce their biases, they aren’t actually looking for useful high quality information.

BoxwoodSeed 3mo ago

EVs are great in, say, Norway. But the population of the country Norway isn't even half that of the city Tokyo. Less people means less cars on the street which translates to less cars using up charging stations. Once things get crowded and you have to wait in line to get your vehicle charged, it becomes a bit annoying.

plusmax1 3mo ago
Well, I live in one of the most densely populated places, the Netherlands. This is not an issue I've encountered. The solution really is : just add more charging spots everywhere. Electric infrastructure is everywhere, charging spots don't need to be concentrated near a gas station. Here in the Netherlands they are everywhere. You just have to get into the habit of using them more often for smaller periods of time instead of habitually going to a gas station.
- BoxwoodSeed 3mo ago
  It is indeed an infrastructure problem, but the infrastructure has to come first.

plusmax1 3mo ago

I totally agree, I went electric last year and couldn't be happier. Got a hyundai ioniq 6 which is an amazing car. Charging is simple and cheap and where I live (nw europe) the charging infrastructure is great. Did a couple of long range road trips (germany, france) and fast chargers were easy to find. Take a small break, have a coffee and the car was already full again. I had some anxiety about this before, but this has 100% better than I was expecting. The best thing is, at least here, there are so many "small" charging spots. If you take them into account when traveling to places (even the grocery store, or the museum, or near whatever relative or friend you are visiting), you can just charge cheaply there. This is the hardest habit for me to break: no, i don't need to visit a "gas station" to fill up, just charge wherever you can find a charger, and it doesnt have to be 100%. Even a short stop on a slower charging spot helps a lot.

jjav 3mo ago

> I don’t know anyone who went electric and then went back. Seriously? EVs have many practical advantages. Don't need to list them here, we all know. But they are so, so, so boring. Zero soul, zero character. Perfect appliance, zero passion. Sometimes in life, passion matters too. I like an EV for city commuting because commuting is boring no matter what so it's a good fit. But for when I want to feel alive and drive (cue up Red Barchetta by Rush), no EV will ever do.

Gys 3mo ago
Back in the day, in my EU country, everybody drove shift gear. Automatic gear was frowned upon. Nowadays everybody drives automatic. People like ‘boring’ comfort, it shows everywhere.
- RhysU 3mo ago
  The Manual Gearbox Preservation Society (https://tmgps.org/ https://tmgps.org/) is a notable counterexample. I look forward to teaching my kids to drive stick. Stick makes driving more engaging then automatic's point-and-go. Engagement breeds attentivity. Texting while driving stick is obviously decreased because both hands are actively required to drive. None of their friends will be able to drive my manual car. I don't know why anyone would hand their kid the keys to an automatic given its downsides.
  - wood_spirit 3mo ago
    Likely your kids cars will drive themselves?
  - jfengel 3mo ago
    I had no trouble managing my mug of coffee while driving stick. (Before cupholders were universal, and before texting). It required some deft coordination to get out of the parking spot and getting up to speed, but I spent most of my time in fifth gear and staying there. One hand is just as free as it is in an automatic. Texting while driving remains a bad idea, but I don't think a stick shift would prevent it. I could have managed to text just as well as I managed drinking coffee.

euroderf 3mo ago

If electric lawnmowers offered the same value, operational convenience, and maintainability (compared to gas-powered mowers) as electric cars do, they'd sell like hotcakes. Two-stroke engines are a PITA.

ZeroGravitas 3mo ago
I thought this already happened? I kept seeing YouTube videos of people reviewing electric chainsaws or snowblowers or whatever and apologizing to their core audience that they weren't woke Democrats, it was just a better tool for many uses.
- hellisothers 3mo ago
  This definitely happened, all my yard/lawn items (mower, chainsaws, hedgers, etc) are all battery. So much better.
  - euroderf 3mo ago
    I can see a hedger working - even with a klunky battery making it a bit unwieldy. But chainsaws and mowers need serious torque - don't so don't they need to stay plugged in while you work ?
    - rascul 3mo ago
      There are some decent battery electric mowers and chainsaws that can be great as long as you have the batteries to keep them going long enough.
    - maxerickson 3mo ago
      I have an Ego pushmower. It takes like 2/3 of a charge to mow my lawn, with a 4 year old 5 amp hour battery. I'm not saving money over gas, but I'm not spending a whole lot more and the lack of hassle is fantastic. If I had a bigger yard I would hesitate to have lots of batteries or whatever.