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> because they're so much better cars than our domestic brands Is that objectively true? True after factoring in harms they do to human rights and the environm

> because they're so much better cars than our domestic brands Is that objectively true? True after factoring in harms they do to human rights and the environment? Nope. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2026/may/12/china-first-electric-car-plant-europe-allegations-worker-abuse https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2026/may/12/c... https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/10/human-rights-ranking-electric-vehicle-industry/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/10/human-rights-... Remember, even EU despite claiming to be morally superior to the US, heavily tariffs BYD (much more than the tariffs that the globe mocks Trump for). https://thenextweb.com/news/byd-rejects-hungary-environmental-violations-szeged-factory https://thenextweb.com/news/byd-rejects-hungary-environmenta...

chii 3mo ago
> Is that objectively true? objectively true. And there's zero need to factor in things like "human rights" or "environmental protection", because these are costs that have been externalized and the consumer don't pay for it (in their lifetime anyway). That's what objectively means. Chinese cars are unavailable in the US because US manufacturers are 100% unable to compete. Japan was in the exact same position before, but because of ally status, japanese car companies (with their gov't as the proxy) managed to negotiate and have a "voluntary import restriction" in place to protect US manufacturers. This artificial restriction created a higher price for consumers than it ordinarily would have been. The japanese car manufacturers were also able to setup shop in the US, and instead of exporting, they manufacturered directly on US soil. They're allowed to do this sole because they're an ally, and i don't expect this same to be allowed for chinese companies.
- handle584 2mo ago
  > because US manufacturers are 100% unable to compete. In the June just passed Tesla Model Y is the best selling EV in China.
  - chii 2mo ago
    And where is that model Y manufactured? Surely you're not suggesting that it's imported from the US.
    - handle584 2mo ago
      If you consider Tesla in China to be Chinese, then BYD in EU would be Hungarian in the parent comment. Japanese brands also manufactures in Mexico, so Mazda is suddenly Mexican now? I've never seen anyone claiming such stuff, except when it comes to anything China. Model Y remains American just like iPhone, regardless of where they are made. Nobody refers to iPhone as Chinese or Indian.
  - zackwu 2mo ago
    Made in Shanghai Gigafactory. Some may even argue Tesla would have died without the manufacture capacity in China
one33seven 3mo ago
Are you saying USA is somehow a good example for environmental issues and human rights? Read the news in the past years?
- thesmtsolver2 2mo ago
  Did you read the links I attached? Are you saying China is better in human rights? Read the news in the past few years?
  - johnnyanmac 2mo ago
    >Are you saying China is better in human rights Sadly, that's debatable these days. But what are you trying to argue here? "America doesn't abuse it's workers as much so it's more ethical to buy american EVs that don't exist!"? We're objectively behind because so many EV lines were paused/cancelled last year >Read the news in the past few years? Yeah, I recommend doing that. We're going to have encyclopedia's dedicated to what's happening in the US in these last few years(and coming next few years).
johnnyanmac 2mo ago
>after factoring in harms they do to human rights and the environment America c. 2025 and beyond has no leg to stand on in terms of espousing care of human rights and environment. >even EU despite claiming to be morally superior to the US, heavily tariffs BYD (much more than the tariffs that the globe mocks Trump for). You are technically correct... because Trump did not actually Tariff BYD directly. The 100% EV tariffs was a Biden era move, made to give American manufacturers time to develop their own EV solutions for the domestic market. Separate from whatever global tariffs Trump announced. And then trump ended EV credits, and ultimately pushed the road down to American manufacturers giving up on their EV initiatives.

chii 3mo ago

> Is that objectively true? objectively true. And there's zero need to factor in things like "human rights" or "environmental protection", because these are costs that have been externalized and the consumer don't pay for it (in their lifetime anyway). That's what objectively means. Chinese cars are unavailable in the US because US manufacturers are 100% unable to compete. Japan was in the exact same position before, but because of ally status, japanese car companies (with their gov't as the proxy) managed to negotiate and have a "voluntary import restriction" in place to protect US manufacturers. This artificial restriction created a higher price for consumers than it ordinarily would have been. The japanese car manufacturers were also able to setup shop in the US, and instead of exporting, they manufacturered directly on US soil. They're allowed to do this sole because they're an ally, and i don't expect this same to be allowed for chinese companies.

handle584 2mo ago
> because US manufacturers are 100% unable to compete. In the June just passed Tesla Model Y is the best selling EV in China.
- chii 2mo ago
  And where is that model Y manufactured? Surely you're not suggesting that it's imported from the US.
  - handle584 2mo ago
    If you consider Tesla in China to be Chinese, then BYD in EU would be Hungarian in the parent comment. Japanese brands also manufactures in Mexico, so Mazda is suddenly Mexican now? I've never seen anyone claiming such stuff, except when it comes to anything China. Model Y remains American just like iPhone, regardless of where they are made. Nobody refers to iPhone as Chinese or Indian.
- zackwu 2mo ago
  Made in Shanghai Gigafactory. Some may even argue Tesla would have died without the manufacture capacity in China

one33seven 3mo ago

Are you saying USA is somehow a good example for environmental issues and human rights? Read the news in the past years?

thesmtsolver2 2mo ago
Did you read the links I attached? Are you saying China is better in human rights? Read the news in the past few years?
- johnnyanmac 2mo ago
  >Are you saying China is better in human rights Sadly, that's debatable these days. But what are you trying to argue here? "America doesn't abuse it's workers as much so it's more ethical to buy american EVs that don't exist!"? We're objectively behind because so many EV lines were paused/cancelled last year >Read the news in the past few years? Yeah, I recommend doing that. We're going to have encyclopedia's dedicated to what's happening in the US in these last few years(and coming next few years).

johnnyanmac 2mo ago

>after factoring in harms they do to human rights and the environment America c. 2025 and beyond has no leg to stand on in terms of espousing care of human rights and environment. >even EU despite claiming to be morally superior to the US, heavily tariffs BYD (much more than the tariffs that the globe mocks Trump for). You are technically correct... because Trump did not actually Tariff BYD directly. The 100% EV tariffs was a Biden era move, made to give American manufacturers time to develop their own EV solutions for the domestic market. Separate from whatever global tariffs Trump announced. And then trump ended EV credits, and ultimately pushed the road down to American manufacturers giving up on their EV initiatives.