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Your dad's data centers are very different to the new GPU focused beasts. The AI data centers consume a lot more power, and thus generate a lot more heat(equal

by grim_io 3mo ago

Your dad's data centers are very different to the new GPU focused beasts. The AI data centers consume a lot more power, and thus generate a lot more heat(equals cooling noise) per square meter. This is the reason why it's a new problem right now. Edit: autocorrect used breasts instead of beasts.

add-sub-mul-div 3mo ago
There's also a lot of people lashing out without knowing anything about data centers because they think AI is loser shit, and data centers have become a rallying point.
maerF0x0 3mo ago
I hear and understand those, but why isn't it a regulation or requirements issue? Ambient noise must be contained, excess heat must be mitigated, free hot water must be provided to nearby buildings. etc. Also this is a city's opportunity to do something like assess penalty tax points. (ie, datacenter usage tax, just like we do to hotels)
- christina97 3mo ago
  Because the people in charge of site picking also shop for low regulation environments.
  - maerF0x0 3mo ago
    isn't that their freedom to? And the right/freedom of those who democratically created the low regulation environment? I do not understand this idea that someone from one place should have their preferences taking precedence the preferences, rights and freedoms of folks who actually live in another place. The main caveat being the boundary lines, but i think that's very much an edge case.
    - AngryData 3mo ago
      And it is the citizen's freedom to say they don't want it, the same as pig farms and oil refineries trying to build next door to them.
- zardo 3mo ago
  > I hear and understand those, but why isn't it a regulation or requirements issue? It's a waste of time and money for each town and county to come up with those requirements. If your community puts any limits on the datacenter builder they'll just build it somewhere else, so you might as well save the effort and just say they can't do it.
  - maerF0x0 3mo ago
    the US is a republic of states. By design it wastes time and money to allow disagreement, variety, and self-determination of states. > they'll just build it somewhere else Why should we have rights to say they cannot do it somewhere else? It's not a moral issue, it's a tragedy of commons issue or unpriced externality issue.
    - jmye 3mo ago
      [dead]
    - zardo 3mo ago
      My point is the town has three options: 1) allow the build 2) develop a set of regulations to ensure the datacenter is a "good neighbor" 3) block the build 2 & 3 have the exact same effect
      - maerF0x0 3mo ago
        > 2 & 3 have the exact same effect On the datacenter builder, maybe. But on enacting freedom as a public value and good, no they're not the same. And on ensuring the next "Datacenter"-like thing is fairly and equally treated? no they're not the same. 2 is superior because it sets the standards and rules for the game, and allows anyone willing to comply to play. 3. Means we have to make the decision over and over, and scratching the back of the decider might mean a favorable outcome for the next builder etc.
  - ratelimitsteve 3mo ago
    >they'll just build it somewhere else what seems to be happening in practice is that the companies building these data centers will just take you to court over the limits being illegal and make that fight cost more than the town's entire annual budget, thus inducing the town to give up.
- GhastBartender 3mo ago
  > but why isn't it a regulation or requirements issue? It's America. They don't do regulations there. The more serious answer is that this political movement is leading to more strict regulation being enacted, it just wasn't in place because of reason #1 and the problems being much less severe. Additionally, the tech industry is notoriously hostile to any kind of regulation. Especially now with AI. Just look at how many people in this thread will insist that it's "Chinese Propaganda", despite clear evidence that this is just a response to the actual problems datacenters cause. One news crew interviewing people with jet turbine noise will do more than a million of Beijing's finest trolls.
kdheiwns 3mo ago
Your edit really illustrates what's wrong with all of this. We can't even get computers to reasonably assume what we're trying to say. But somehow the ultra rich have decided to devote all global resources to doing bad autocorrect for everything everywhere and calling it AI.
quickthrowman 3mo ago
Why is that a problem? It might raise the temp within a few hundred feet of the chillers by 0.5-1F which is substantially less than an urban heat island temp delta vs surrounding rural land. A sane municipality will require sound mitigation on generators, chillers, and other loud equipment. Sure, there are shitty places that don’t take care of their citizens that will let you run natural gas turbines to generate power, but it’s possible to contain the bad effects of data centers with local and state regulations. I’ll take a data center that evaporates water to replace the iron casting foundry in my neighborhood any day.
- grim_io 3mo ago
  It's not about the heat radiating from the data center, it's about the noise generated trying to cool the beast. The power usage is massive, and that's still a very much limited resource for which everyone competes for. Adding to your edit: Would you feel the same about adding an AI data center on top of the iron casting foundry you already have to deal with?
  - quickthrowman 3mo ago
    You can buy chillers with enclosures that limit the sound to a reasonable volume, Google “chiller noise attenuation”. You can add walls around lots of chillers to further limit the noise. If the data center follows the city statutes for noise levels at the property line that exist in my municipality, then sure, I’ll take the data center above the iron foundry. > Power usage is massive The utility can approve or deny the connection. Data centers in areas without any available power are not getting grid connections.

by grim_io 3mo ago

add-sub-mul-div 3mo ago

There's also a lot of people lashing out without knowing anything about data centers because they think AI is loser shit, and data centers have become a rallying point.

maerF0x0 3mo ago

I hear and understand those, but why isn't it a regulation or requirements issue? Ambient noise must be contained, excess heat must be mitigated, free hot water must be provided to nearby buildings. etc. Also this is a city's opportunity to do something like assess penalty tax points. (ie, datacenter usage tax, just like we do to hotels)

christina97 3mo ago
Because the people in charge of site picking also shop for low regulation environments.
- maerF0x0 3mo ago
  isn't that their freedom to? And the right/freedom of those who democratically created the low regulation environment? I do not understand this idea that someone from one place should have their preferences taking precedence the preferences, rights and freedoms of folks who actually live in another place. The main caveat being the boundary lines, but i think that's very much an edge case.
  - AngryData 3mo ago
    And it is the citizen's freedom to say they don't want it, the same as pig farms and oil refineries trying to build next door to them.
zardo 3mo ago
> I hear and understand those, but why isn't it a regulation or requirements issue? It's a waste of time and money for each town and county to come up with those requirements. If your community puts any limits on the datacenter builder they'll just build it somewhere else, so you might as well save the effort and just say they can't do it.
- maerF0x0 3mo ago
  the US is a republic of states. By design it wastes time and money to allow disagreement, variety, and self-determination of states. > they'll just build it somewhere else Why should we have rights to say they cannot do it somewhere else? It's not a moral issue, it's a tragedy of commons issue or unpriced externality issue.
  - jmye 3mo ago
    [dead]
  - zardo 3mo ago
    My point is the town has three options: 1) allow the build 2) develop a set of regulations to ensure the datacenter is a "good neighbor" 3) block the build 2 & 3 have the exact same effect
    - maerF0x0 3mo ago
      > 2 & 3 have the exact same effect On the datacenter builder, maybe. But on enacting freedom as a public value and good, no they're not the same. And on ensuring the next "Datacenter"-like thing is fairly and equally treated? no they're not the same. 2 is superior because it sets the standards and rules for the game, and allows anyone willing to comply to play. 3. Means we have to make the decision over and over, and scratching the back of the decider might mean a favorable outcome for the next builder etc.
- ratelimitsteve 3mo ago
  >they'll just build it somewhere else what seems to be happening in practice is that the companies building these data centers will just take you to court over the limits being illegal and make that fight cost more than the town's entire annual budget, thus inducing the town to give up.
GhastBartender 3mo ago
> but why isn't it a regulation or requirements issue? It's America. They don't do regulations there. The more serious answer is that this political movement is leading to more strict regulation being enacted, it just wasn't in place because of reason #1 and the problems being much less severe. Additionally, the tech industry is notoriously hostile to any kind of regulation. Especially now with AI. Just look at how many people in this thread will insist that it's "Chinese Propaganda", despite clear evidence that this is just a response to the actual problems datacenters cause. One news crew interviewing people with jet turbine noise will do more than a million of Beijing's finest trolls.

kdheiwns 3mo ago

Your edit really illustrates what's wrong with all of this. We can't even get computers to reasonably assume what we're trying to say. But somehow the ultra rich have decided to devote all global resources to doing bad autocorrect for everything everywhere and calling it AI.

quickthrowman 3mo ago

Why is that a problem? It might raise the temp within a few hundred feet of the chillers by 0.5-1F which is substantially less than an urban heat island temp delta vs surrounding rural land. A sane municipality will require sound mitigation on generators, chillers, and other loud equipment. Sure, there are shitty places that don’t take care of their citizens that will let you run natural gas turbines to generate power, but it’s possible to contain the bad effects of data centers with local and state regulations. I’ll take a data center that evaporates water to replace the iron casting foundry in my neighborhood any day.

grim_io 3mo ago
It's not about the heat radiating from the data center, it's about the noise generated trying to cool the beast. The power usage is massive, and that's still a very much limited resource for which everyone competes for. Adding to your edit: Would you feel the same about adding an AI data center on top of the iron casting foundry you already have to deal with?
- quickthrowman 3mo ago
  You can buy chillers with enclosures that limit the sound to a reasonable volume, Google “chiller noise attenuation”. You can add walls around lots of chillers to further limit the noise. If the data center follows the city statutes for noise levels at the property line that exist in my municipality, then sure, I’ll take the data center above the iron foundry. > Power usage is massive The utility can approve or deny the connection. Data centers in areas without any available power are not getting grid connections.