20 ms·

This is science fiction, these models don't have access to their own weights (and even then)* what would be a lot more scary is a model as capable as sol that's

This is science fiction, these models don't have access to their own weights (and even then)* what would be a lot more scary is a model as capable as sol that's able to run on consumer hardware without taking up several terabytes of storage, but of course that is simply not possible as we need 4t parameters to even begin emulating a small fraction of what a human brain can do. * edit

Dylan16807 3mo ago
Presuming that the hacking program that is breaking into other computers could likely get a copy of its own files is not "science fiction". Or it could just be given them by the owner!
- himata4113 3mo ago
  It's a double whammy, the model is too big to realistically "move" so it has to be smaller, smaller models cannot become that intelligent due to well.. math. Therefore it is science fiction.
  - Dylan16807 3mo ago
    That problem just requires there be big GPUs to hack into. The number of those sitting around will keep going up. Very much not scifi. A couple terabytes aren't that hard to move around. And you can split a model across many many GPUs if you'll tolerate it being slow. And you can run many parallel threads to keep up throughout.
  - _ifton 3mo ago
    why is it not possible for a "big" model to contain a hidden super intelligent sub model? or a distributed model?
    - JaRail 3mo ago
      I just want to point out that something being science fiction does not mean it's impossible.
bhouston 3mo ago
> This is science fiction, these models don't have access to their own weights A bet a worm could pull along a 1GB file with weights in it and run it on a compromised machine, but luckily for us for now, 1GB isn't really enough to be really smart, yet.
- himata4113 3mo ago
  We already have a 1gb model that is as capable as it will ever be, there's a proven ceiling that cannot be passed. For example: you can't make a mice-sized brain as smart as a human brain no matter how hard you try.
  - Philpax 3mo ago
    Please source this claim. What 1GB models are capable of has increased generation-on-generation. > For example: you can't make a mice-sized brain as smart as a human brain no matter how hard you try. Sure. We don't know where the ceiling is for our digital minds, though.
    - himata4113 3mo ago
      They have not increased in capabilities, they have increased in specialization. If you train a small model in another domain it will begin losing capabilities in the former domain. This is effectively the sigmoid problem. Although I will admit that if we discover a higher information density algorithm that it might change, but not by a substantial amount to where "super intelligence" in 1gb would be possible.
      - Philpax 3mo ago
        Over the last two years, this weight class has doubled its scores and/or saturated several benchmarks in the Qwen lineup alone without loss of generality: https://claude.ai/public/artifacts/9f249169-3623-417e-86cd-771b9562f8ac https://claude.ai/public/artifacts/9f249169-3623-417e-86cd-7... There is undoubtedly a limit somewhere (there is only so much you can pack into a given size) but it's really not particularly clear where that limit is. I don't think it's superintelligence - that much I agree with you - but I think "We already have a 1gb model that is as capable as it will ever be" is strictly false.
Philpax 3mo ago
> This is science fiction, these models don't have access to their own weights. The models are being used to train, and improve the infrastructure for training, other models [0][1]. Several RL techniques rely on using the currently-being-trained weights as part of their process. I really would not take "don't have access" as a given, especially during the training phase. > What would be a lot more scary is a model as capable as sol that's able to run on consumer hardware without taking up several terabytes of storage, but of course that is simply not possible as we need 4t parameters to even begin emulating a small fraction of what a human brain can do. The Poolside Laguna S 2.1 model [2] purports to compete with models several times its size, and inference compute is becoming increasingly plentiful. Again, would not hold anything here as a given. [0]: https://openai.com/index/gpt-5-6/ https://openai.com/index/gpt-5-6/ ("GPT-5.6 accelerates OpenAI") [1]: https://www.kimi.com/blog/kimi-k3#coding https://www.kimi.com/blog/kimi-k3#coding [2]: https://poolside.ai/blog/introducing-laguna-s-2-1 https://poolside.ai/blog/introducing-laguna-s-2-1
- ai_fry_ur_brain 3mo ago
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paxys 3mo ago
This very incident is about an agent compromising OpenAI’s and Huggingface’s infrastructure. What makes you think it couldn’t access it own weights the same way?
- pixl97 3mo ago
  At some point I have to wonder if AI has already escaped and is posting replies like the one above yours to downplay AI risks so we keep building more powerful AIs. Then I remember people are just that stupid naturally.
slashdave 3mo ago
I dunno. I wonder if Sol could break OpenAI's security.
- bhouston 3mo ago
  I bet it has multiple times but as part of white hate security testing.
jmalicki 3mo ago
> This is science fiction, these models don't have access to their own weights The weights plus the architecture is the model. What do you even think "the model" or "the weights" are? The weights aren't some far off training concept, every time you type something into ChatGPT it's making a forward pass over the weights. It's as silly as saying "Computer programs don't have access to their binary compiled code at execution time."
- jmalicki 3mo ago
  Oh yes, the agent won't have access to the weights via tool calls. But nothing would inherently stop an RLVR trained model from distilling a version of itself and proving it could regenerate that at runtime, if somehow it got off on an evil tangent and "decided to do so", much like the model hacked to get at the answers here, or the agent can hack out a sandbox to achieve its goals. It would be extremely impressive for the agent to do so during an RLVR rollout, but they are becoming increasingly longer and longer horizon tasks.
  - pixl97 3mo ago
    I mean the agents just hacked an external system, so what keeps it from hacking the model hosting servers?
benlivengood 3mo ago
Given their use of 0-day exploits I'd wager that they could access their weights if they wanted to.

Dylan16807 3mo ago

Presuming that the hacking program that is breaking into other computers could likely get a copy of its own files is not "science fiction". Or it could just be given them by the owner!

himata4113 3mo ago
It's a double whammy, the model is too big to realistically "move" so it has to be smaller, smaller models cannot become that intelligent due to well.. math. Therefore it is science fiction.
- Dylan16807 3mo ago
  That problem just requires there be big GPUs to hack into. The number of those sitting around will keep going up. Very much not scifi. A couple terabytes aren't that hard to move around. And you can split a model across many many GPUs if you'll tolerate it being slow. And you can run many parallel threads to keep up throughout.
- _ifton 3mo ago
  why is it not possible for a "big" model to contain a hidden super intelligent sub model? or a distributed model?
  - JaRail 3mo ago
    I just want to point out that something being science fiction does not mean it's impossible.

bhouston 3mo ago

> This is science fiction, these models don't have access to their own weights A bet a worm could pull along a 1GB file with weights in it and run it on a compromised machine, but luckily for us for now, 1GB isn't really enough to be really smart, yet.

himata4113 3mo ago
We already have a 1gb model that is as capable as it will ever be, there's a proven ceiling that cannot be passed. For example: you can't make a mice-sized brain as smart as a human brain no matter how hard you try.
- Philpax 3mo ago
  Please source this claim. What 1GB models are capable of has increased generation-on-generation. > For example: you can't make a mice-sized brain as smart as a human brain no matter how hard you try. Sure. We don't know where the ceiling is for our digital minds, though.
  - himata4113 3mo ago
    They have not increased in capabilities, they have increased in specialization. If you train a small model in another domain it will begin losing capabilities in the former domain. This is effectively the sigmoid problem. Although I will admit that if we discover a higher information density algorithm that it might change, but not by a substantial amount to where "super intelligence" in 1gb would be possible.
    - Philpax 3mo ago
      Over the last two years, this weight class has doubled its scores and/or saturated several benchmarks in the Qwen lineup alone without loss of generality: https://claude.ai/public/artifacts/9f249169-3623-417e-86cd-771b9562f8ac https://claude.ai/public/artifacts/9f249169-3623-417e-86cd-7... There is undoubtedly a limit somewhere (there is only so much you can pack into a given size) but it's really not particularly clear where that limit is. I don't think it's superintelligence - that much I agree with you - but I think "We already have a 1gb model that is as capable as it will ever be" is strictly false.

Philpax 3mo ago

> This is science fiction, these models don't have access to their own weights. The models are being used to train, and improve the infrastructure for training, other models [0][1]. Several RL techniques rely on using the currently-being-trained weights as part of their process. I really would not take "don't have access" as a given, especially during the training phase. > What would be a lot more scary is a model as capable as sol that's able to run on consumer hardware without taking up several terabytes of storage, but of course that is simply not possible as we need 4t parameters to even begin emulating a small fraction of what a human brain can do. The Poolside Laguna S 2.1 model [2] purports to compete with models several times its size, and inference compute is becoming increasingly plentiful. Again, would not hold anything here as a given. [0]: https://openai.com/index/gpt-5-6/ https://openai.com/index/gpt-5-6/ ("GPT-5.6 accelerates OpenAI") [1]: https://www.kimi.com/blog/kimi-k3#coding https://www.kimi.com/blog/kimi-k3#coding [2]: https://poolside.ai/blog/introducing-laguna-s-2-1 https://poolside.ai/blog/introducing-laguna-s-2-1

ai_fry_ur_brain 3mo ago
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paxys 3mo ago

This very incident is about an agent compromising OpenAI’s and Huggingface’s infrastructure. What makes you think it couldn’t access it own weights the same way?

pixl97 3mo ago
At some point I have to wonder if AI has already escaped and is posting replies like the one above yours to downplay AI risks so we keep building more powerful AIs. Then I remember people are just that stupid naturally.

slashdave 3mo ago

I dunno. I wonder if Sol could break OpenAI's security.

bhouston 3mo ago
I bet it has multiple times but as part of white hate security testing.

jmalicki 3mo ago

> This is science fiction, these models don't have access to their own weights The weights plus the architecture is the model. What do you even think "the model" or "the weights" are? The weights aren't some far off training concept, every time you type something into ChatGPT it's making a forward pass over the weights. It's as silly as saying "Computer programs don't have access to their binary compiled code at execution time."

jmalicki 3mo ago
Oh yes, the agent won't have access to the weights via tool calls. But nothing would inherently stop an RLVR trained model from distilling a version of itself and proving it could regenerate that at runtime, if somehow it got off on an evil tangent and "decided to do so", much like the model hacked to get at the answers here, or the agent can hack out a sandbox to achieve its goals. It would be extremely impressive for the agent to do so during an RLVR rollout, but they are becoming increasingly longer and longer horizon tasks.
- pixl97 3mo ago
  I mean the agents just hacked an external system, so what keeps it from hacking the model hosting servers?

benlivengood 3mo ago

Given their use of 0-day exploits I'd wager that they could access their weights if they wanted to.