5 ms·

> Basically, what happened is that they rebuilt it from proof of ownership and testimonies of the people In a similar vein, I was once curious how you would pr

> Basically, what happened is that they rebuilt it from proof of ownership and testimonies of the people In a similar vein, I was once curious how you would prove your identity if ALL of your relevant documents (passport, driver's license, birth certificate etc) were lost in some kind of cataclysm e.g. a house fire pre-digital etc Turns out there is actually a mechanism for this: - get multiple people to sign sworn affidavits that you are who you say you are - that begins the "paper trail" of evidence that allows you to start getting the rest of the document chain - you rebuild from there. If you're married, there is already a similar process for when a spouse takes the last name of the other spouse. The marriage certificate is the first step and then it goes from there for driver's license, passport, credit cards and so on.

giancarlostoro 3mo ago
Fun fact, if you're unlucky enough to replace your Social Security card 10 times, they will no longer issue them to you anymore. It is a lifetime limit, and they fan it out to 3 per year. Oddly enough, if you legally change your name, they will send you a new one regardless of the limit.
- Tangurena2 3mo ago
  Afterwards, you have to make an appointment to see them in person. Until then, you can order them online or via snailmail.
- ButlerianJihad 3mo ago
  The circumstances in which you actually need to physically present your Social Security card are quite rare indeed. In fact, that is the first thing I was told by the ssa dot gov site, when I applied to receive a new card. It is very unlikely that you will be asked, even by a prospective employer, for your actual card, because let's face it: it doesn't even have a photo, or anything but that unique number on it. Anyone trying to authenticate your number should be satisfied if you can give them the correct number. And just for review: SSNs are not a "national ID" and you're typically not required to divulge it to private parties, and they can make up some other unique ID for you in their database. It's usually just a shortcut for them to do a background or credit check on you. And that's not something for which they would need your physical card. That being said, I've replaced my card about 3 times now, and it was comparatively difficult this time around. The first time, I did it all through the mail (the process of building up from no ID to get birth certificate from out-of-state, to the SSA card, to the in-state driver license.) and the second time it arrived by mail, no hassle. But this time around, even though I applied online, I was directed to make an appointment at the field office and physically walk in there, to prove my humanity. I had never been to an SSA Field Office in my life! The experience was very chill, and there were a dozen windows serving people, while about 4 of us waited in the lobby, and I was in-and-out half an hour early. The civil servant was a lady in good spirits who was a military veteran. Big props to them!
  - ghaff 3mo ago
    I no longer have an SS card--which was in a wallet stolen years ago--or, perhaps, a birth certificate which I looked for recently but couldn't find. I do have a passport.
  - ilamont 3mo ago
    > The circumstances in which you actually need to physically present your Social Security card are quite rare indeed. In my state, it's one of the allowed document types for proof of social security number, required to get a real ID drivers license. https://www.mass.gov/doc/ma-real-id-documents-checklist/download https://www.mass.gov/doc/ma-real-id-documents-checklist/down...
    - Dylan16807 3mo ago
      To get one, but not to renew it, so that's still pretty rare.
      - ghaff 3mo ago
        In MA, there are a number of documents you can use. I don't have a Social Security card and haven't had in decades and got my REALID.
  - irjustin 3mo ago
    > SSNs are not a "national ID" That's not what they are, but that's what they've defacto become. I hate it.
    - reaperducer 3mo ago
      Is that still true? Except for certain industries where the government has a direct interest (banking, healthcare, real estate), I don't think anyone has asked for my SSN in at least a decade. It's not like the old days when you'd fork over your SSN to rent videos at Blockbuster.
      - 3mo ago
- tomaskafka 3mo ago
  [flagged]
amiheines 3mo ago
If you're married and Jewish, the wife's mother keeps the marriage document, so even if there is a house fire and all documents are lost, your mother in law usually lives in another house, so you can pick it up from there.
- dghlsakjg 3mo ago
  I’m married and Jewish. It would be pretty surprising to me if my wife’s mother had even seen our marriage paperwork let alone possessed it. This also isn’t a tradition I’ve ever heard of in my family. Or did a joke about overbearing mother in laws just go right over my head.
  - amiheines 3mo ago
    Ask your mother in law. At least in Israel, during the ceremony, the Rabi gives the ktuba to the bride's mother for safe keeping.
    - dghlsakjg 3mo ago
      Many might not believe this but Israel and their customs do not represent all Jewry. Israel is the country with the highest proportion of people claiming Jewish roots, but not the country with the most Jews. I know where my documents are kept. They are not with my mother in law.
      - throw4925753 3mo ago
        You are overreacting to a claim about customs made by one person on the Internet. The Ketubah is traditionally transferred from groom to bride as it contains his promise to protect her rights. Under the Chuppah the bride usually wants her hands free for other things and not worry about misplacing the Ketubah at the wedding, so it’s often passed along to her mother, who’s standing close to her, to put it somewhere safe for the evening.
ponector 3mo ago
At least you can restore it. Imagine all your devices are lost in a massive fire, is there a way to get back your apple account?
- brookst 3mo ago
  Phone number and email access, if you can regain access to them. It is definitely a good idea to plan in advance and set up a recovery contact: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102641 https://support.apple.com/en-us/102641
  - ponector 3mo ago
    But email access is protected by MFA based on your destroyed device. Recovery codes are also stored in the same destroyed building.
    - kijin 3mo ago
      You can get back your phone number once you have a photo ID and buy a new phone. Then you should hope that your service providers aren't secure enough to have disabled SMS-based account recovery.
    - brookst 3mo ago
      I said “if” for email, which I at least have recovery codes stored with someone trusted. And that link is to recovery contacts, not codes. If you’re willing to trust one person you can get back into your Apple account after a disaster.
- cortesoft 3mo ago
  I have a 'bootstrap' system... I have recovery codes and a backup for critical things encrypted and stored in a public git repo I push to both gitlab and github. If I lose everything, I can use those recovery codes to access the things I need to recover my digital identity.
SoftTalker 3mo ago
Yeah it's actually not that bad, because for example the BMV will likely upon request send you a duplicate driver's license to your address of record. Same for getting replacement credit cards. If you had utility services at that address in your name that's additional documentation. Also historical tax returns, bank accounts, etc.
- halJordan 3mo ago
  "why's he asking for a new dl? " "Oh volcano exploded, his home is under 5 ft of ash." "Gotcha, mail him the copy"
  - reaperducer 3mo ago
    Fun fact: If your house is under 5 ft of ash, it's not covered by volcano insurance. That only covers you if your home is destroyed by the actual eruption/explosion. What you need is "pyroclastic event" insurance to cover you for ash and lahar. / It cost something like $15/year when I lived in Seattle. // The macOS spell checker doesn't know "lahar."
    - 6LLvveMx2koXfwn 3mo ago
      This basically covers the financial model of the whole insurance industry; - get insurance to cover you for X - get hit by X - realise you actually got hit by Y after reading the policy small print (or you really did get hit by X, but your policy only covers you for Y) Getting something like Volcano Insurance requires some specific foresight, I would be slapping myself on the back if my house was covered in volcanic ash right up to the point when I got on the phone to my insurance company to make a claim.
  - kijin 3mo ago
    Brb, gotta camp on top of the ash at the same lat/long coordinates to catch the mailman.
iepathos 3mo ago
Do the people who sign sworn affidavits already have to have proven identities? If so, then they're unable to recover from a situation where they lost everyone's identity.
- olau 3mo ago
  You start with the queen. Everyone knows who she is.
  - OJFord 3mo ago
    Yes exactly, I'm the queen, and so's my wife.
  - greycol 3mo ago
    While in jest, It does remind me of the time Dolly Parton entered a Dolly Parton look alike contest and lost.
    - dghlsakjg 3mo ago
      In fairness, she isn’t a Dolly Parton look-alike.
- rcbdev 3mo ago
  In Austria, there is the concept of "Amtsbekanntheit", meaning if the government officer knows you, that's also valid proof of identity.
Lerc 3mo ago
I tend towards being cautious with my information which has led to beauricracies doubting my existence. I got my first passport at a formative period of my life (international travel does that). I looked nothing like the photo within aa year. It served as a passport until it expired but only created skeptisism as a photo ID. I don't know how to drive, so do not possess a driver's licence. I am in a 35+ year relationship, but unmarried. The only purchase I have made on finance was a bed that I immediately paid off because the the only reason I did it was to establish a record. This was surprisingly difficult to do because they were reluctant to let me have the bed on finance because I had no credit record. I finally had to renew my passport when I bought a house. It was the only way I could meet the id requirements. Prior to that I was leveraging non-photo id that could only be acquired with photo-id. It seen that will be accepted in lieu in many instances and allows you to get more similar forms of non-photo ID. All you need to get started is to find a staff member fed up with the ridiculous rules enough to click the checkbox to say that they saw a photo ID. It helps that many of the staff in these positions are more aware of security theater than the general public. Being a land owner means a lot of those days are peassed, I can't really prove I am the person who is recorded as owning the land, but mostly organisatipns are happy that I am claiming to be someone they know exists. Linkedin has stopped asking. I'm not sure if that means they think I am a lost cause or that anyone not on their books by now doesn't actually exist.
- skipkey 3mo ago
  So for many years I only paid cash for everything, but I hit a point at which I wanted to start establishing credit. What I did was to open a secured credit card at my bank. They actually had me put it in a CD which was used to secure it. After I think 2 years of paying on time they removed the security requirement. I don’t know if that’s still a viable method but I used it in the early 2000s.
locao 3mo ago
Sort of the plot of Banana Joe. Everytime I get stuck with some kind of circular bureaucracy I shout "it's Banana Joe all over again!" and no one understands.
- pseudohadamard 3mo ago
  Hadn't heard of that one before. It's a Bud Spencer film! And now I also know that he has a law degree, has several registered patents, and was a certified airline pilot. Pretty impressive.
jandrewrogers 3mo ago
It depends on the country. The US has the ability to do the equivalent of deep "duck typing" with almost no documentation even if you've been off the grid in the developing world for a long time. This is a case where the intelligence apparatus works in your favor. They can know you are a US citizen with high probability absent obvious evidence of such. Of course, if you fall into a crack that is beyond their reach you will almost certainly have a more difficult time. For a variety of historical reasons, there has been relatively little reliable documentation of American citizenship so the system adapted to that reality.
johanvts 3mo ago
In my country (and I think by now most non-US developed countries do something similar) everybody has a CPR(CentralPersonRegistry) number that identifies you, you need it to do almost everything so you aren't likely to forget (its your birthday + 4 digits). You get it at birth or if you come to the country for more than 3 months, it legally mandatory and it's also legally required to inform the government if you change your address. Also, if you (ever) had a modern passport there is already a database with your fingerprints, face and iris scan in it.
- lazyasciiart 3mo ago
  I can’t think of any British or Australian or French personal ID number like this?

giancarlostoro 3mo ago

Fun fact, if you're unlucky enough to replace your Social Security card 10 times, they will no longer issue them to you anymore. It is a lifetime limit, and they fan it out to 3 per year. Oddly enough, if you legally change your name, they will send you a new one regardless of the limit.

Tangurena2 3mo ago
Afterwards, you have to make an appointment to see them in person. Until then, you can order them online or via snailmail.
ButlerianJihad 3mo ago
The circumstances in which you actually need to physically present your Social Security card are quite rare indeed. In fact, that is the first thing I was told by the ssa dot gov site, when I applied to receive a new card. It is very unlikely that you will be asked, even by a prospective employer, for your actual card, because let's face it: it doesn't even have a photo, or anything but that unique number on it. Anyone trying to authenticate your number should be satisfied if you can give them the correct number. And just for review: SSNs are not a "national ID" and you're typically not required to divulge it to private parties, and they can make up some other unique ID for you in their database. It's usually just a shortcut for them to do a background or credit check on you. And that's not something for which they would need your physical card. That being said, I've replaced my card about 3 times now, and it was comparatively difficult this time around. The first time, I did it all through the mail (the process of building up from no ID to get birth certificate from out-of-state, to the SSA card, to the in-state driver license.) and the second time it arrived by mail, no hassle. But this time around, even though I applied online, I was directed to make an appointment at the field office and physically walk in there, to prove my humanity. I had never been to an SSA Field Office in my life! The experience was very chill, and there were a dozen windows serving people, while about 4 of us waited in the lobby, and I was in-and-out half an hour early. The civil servant was a lady in good spirits who was a military veteran. Big props to them!
- ghaff 3mo ago
  I no longer have an SS card--which was in a wallet stolen years ago--or, perhaps, a birth certificate which I looked for recently but couldn't find. I do have a passport.
- ilamont 3mo ago
  > The circumstances in which you actually need to physically present your Social Security card are quite rare indeed. In my state, it's one of the allowed document types for proof of social security number, required to get a real ID drivers license. https://www.mass.gov/doc/ma-real-id-documents-checklist/download https://www.mass.gov/doc/ma-real-id-documents-checklist/down...
  - Dylan16807 3mo ago
    To get one, but not to renew it, so that's still pretty rare.
    - ghaff 3mo ago
      In MA, there are a number of documents you can use. I don't have a Social Security card and haven't had in decades and got my REALID.
- irjustin 3mo ago
  > SSNs are not a "national ID" That's not what they are, but that's what they've defacto become. I hate it.
  - reaperducer 3mo ago
    Is that still true? Except for certain industries where the government has a direct interest (banking, healthcare, real estate), I don't think anyone has asked for my SSN in at least a decade. It's not like the old days when you'd fork over your SSN to rent videos at Blockbuster.
    - 3mo ago
tomaskafka 3mo ago
[flagged]

amiheines 3mo ago

If you're married and Jewish, the wife's mother keeps the marriage document, so even if there is a house fire and all documents are lost, your mother in law usually lives in another house, so you can pick it up from there.

dghlsakjg 3mo ago
I’m married and Jewish. It would be pretty surprising to me if my wife’s mother had even seen our marriage paperwork let alone possessed it. This also isn’t a tradition I’ve ever heard of in my family. Or did a joke about overbearing mother in laws just go right over my head.
- amiheines 3mo ago
  Ask your mother in law. At least in Israel, during the ceremony, the Rabi gives the ktuba to the bride's mother for safe keeping.
  - dghlsakjg 3mo ago
    Many might not believe this but Israel and their customs do not represent all Jewry. Israel is the country with the highest proportion of people claiming Jewish roots, but not the country with the most Jews. I know where my documents are kept. They are not with my mother in law.
    - throw4925753 3mo ago
      You are overreacting to a claim about customs made by one person on the Internet. The Ketubah is traditionally transferred from groom to bride as it contains his promise to protect her rights. Under the Chuppah the bride usually wants her hands free for other things and not worry about misplacing the Ketubah at the wedding, so it’s often passed along to her mother, who’s standing close to her, to put it somewhere safe for the evening.

ponector 3mo ago

At least you can restore it. Imagine all your devices are lost in a massive fire, is there a way to get back your apple account?

brookst 3mo ago
Phone number and email access, if you can regain access to them. It is definitely a good idea to plan in advance and set up a recovery contact: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102641 https://support.apple.com/en-us/102641
- ponector 3mo ago
  But email access is protected by MFA based on your destroyed device. Recovery codes are also stored in the same destroyed building.
  - kijin 3mo ago
    You can get back your phone number once you have a photo ID and buy a new phone. Then you should hope that your service providers aren't secure enough to have disabled SMS-based account recovery.
  - brookst 3mo ago
    I said “if” for email, which I at least have recovery codes stored with someone trusted. And that link is to recovery contacts, not codes. If you’re willing to trust one person you can get back into your Apple account after a disaster.
cortesoft 3mo ago
I have a 'bootstrap' system... I have recovery codes and a backup for critical things encrypted and stored in a public git repo I push to both gitlab and github. If I lose everything, I can use those recovery codes to access the things I need to recover my digital identity.

SoftTalker 3mo ago

Yeah it's actually not that bad, because for example the BMV will likely upon request send you a duplicate driver's license to your address of record. Same for getting replacement credit cards. If you had utility services at that address in your name that's additional documentation. Also historical tax returns, bank accounts, etc.

halJordan 3mo ago
"why's he asking for a new dl? " "Oh volcano exploded, his home is under 5 ft of ash." "Gotcha, mail him the copy"
- reaperducer 3mo ago
  Fun fact: If your house is under 5 ft of ash, it's not covered by volcano insurance. That only covers you if your home is destroyed by the actual eruption/explosion. What you need is "pyroclastic event" insurance to cover you for ash and lahar. / It cost something like $15/year when I lived in Seattle. // The macOS spell checker doesn't know "lahar."
  - 6LLvveMx2koXfwn 3mo ago
    This basically covers the financial model of the whole insurance industry; - get insurance to cover you for X - get hit by X - realise you actually got hit by Y after reading the policy small print (or you really did get hit by X, but your policy only covers you for Y) Getting something like Volcano Insurance requires some specific foresight, I would be slapping myself on the back if my house was covered in volcanic ash right up to the point when I got on the phone to my insurance company to make a claim.
- kijin 3mo ago
  Brb, gotta camp on top of the ash at the same lat/long coordinates to catch the mailman.

iepathos 3mo ago

Do the people who sign sworn affidavits already have to have proven identities? If so, then they're unable to recover from a situation where they lost everyone's identity.

olau 3mo ago
You start with the queen. Everyone knows who she is.
- OJFord 3mo ago
  Yes exactly, I'm the queen, and so's my wife.
- greycol 3mo ago
  While in jest, It does remind me of the time Dolly Parton entered a Dolly Parton look alike contest and lost.
  - dghlsakjg 3mo ago
    In fairness, she isn’t a Dolly Parton look-alike.
rcbdev 3mo ago
In Austria, there is the concept of "Amtsbekanntheit", meaning if the government officer knows you, that's also valid proof of identity.

Lerc 3mo ago

I tend towards being cautious with my information which has led to beauricracies doubting my existence. I got my first passport at a formative period of my life (international travel does that). I looked nothing like the photo within aa year. It served as a passport until it expired but only created skeptisism as a photo ID. I don't know how to drive, so do not possess a driver's licence. I am in a 35+ year relationship, but unmarried. The only purchase I have made on finance was a bed that I immediately paid off because the the only reason I did it was to establish a record. This was surprisingly difficult to do because they were reluctant to let me have the bed on finance because I had no credit record. I finally had to renew my passport when I bought a house. It was the only way I could meet the id requirements. Prior to that I was leveraging non-photo id that could only be acquired with photo-id. It seen that will be accepted in lieu in many instances and allows you to get more similar forms of non-photo ID. All you need to get started is to find a staff member fed up with the ridiculous rules enough to click the checkbox to say that they saw a photo ID. It helps that many of the staff in these positions are more aware of security theater than the general public. Being a land owner means a lot of those days are peassed, I can't really prove I am the person who is recorded as owning the land, but mostly organisatipns are happy that I am claiming to be someone they know exists. Linkedin has stopped asking. I'm not sure if that means they think I am a lost cause or that anyone not on their books by now doesn't actually exist.

skipkey 3mo ago
So for many years I only paid cash for everything, but I hit a point at which I wanted to start establishing credit. What I did was to open a secured credit card at my bank. They actually had me put it in a CD which was used to secure it. After I think 2 years of paying on time they removed the security requirement. I don’t know if that’s still a viable method but I used it in the early 2000s.

locao 3mo ago

Sort of the plot of Banana Joe. Everytime I get stuck with some kind of circular bureaucracy I shout "it's Banana Joe all over again!" and no one understands.

pseudohadamard 3mo ago
Hadn't heard of that one before. It's a Bud Spencer film! And now I also know that he has a law degree, has several registered patents, and was a certified airline pilot. Pretty impressive.

jandrewrogers 3mo ago

It depends on the country. The US has the ability to do the equivalent of deep "duck typing" with almost no documentation even if you've been off the grid in the developing world for a long time. This is a case where the intelligence apparatus works in your favor. They can know you are a US citizen with high probability absent obvious evidence of such. Of course, if you fall into a crack that is beyond their reach you will almost certainly have a more difficult time. For a variety of historical reasons, there has been relatively little reliable documentation of American citizenship so the system adapted to that reality.

johanvts 3mo ago

In my country (and I think by now most non-US developed countries do something similar) everybody has a CPR(CentralPersonRegistry) number that identifies you, you need it to do almost everything so you aren't likely to forget (its your birthday + 4 digits). You get it at birth or if you come to the country for more than 3 months, it legally mandatory and it's also legally required to inform the government if you change your address. Also, if you (ever) had a modern passport there is already a database with your fingerprints, face and iris scan in it.

lazyasciiart 3mo ago
I can’t think of any British or Australian or French personal ID number like this?