5 ms·

The “special military operation” euphemism that both the US/Russia used in Iran/Ukraine does have a degree of truth. These wars are really military engagements

The “special military operation” euphemism that both the US/Russia used in Iran/Ukraine does have a degree of truth. These wars are really military engagements with directional objectives rather than truly existential wars with binary outcomes. Modern wars really resemble Rome’s Germanic wars more than the Punic ones.

mewpmewp2 2mo ago
I mean Russia definitely keeps losing very many soldiers every day, I don't think that is comparable at all. It's completely different from US vs Iran.
- SanjayMehta 2mo ago
  This comment epitomises one of the reasons why the US does not and cannot win any war against a peer adversary. Flawed data.
  - dralley 2mo ago
    I don't even understand what this comment is supposed to be saying in relation to the previous one.
    - SanjayMehta 2mo ago
      Look at the body exchange ratios between The Ukraine and Russia. Jan 29th: 1000 - 38 Feb 26th: 1000 - 35 Apr 9th: 1000 - 41 May 15th: 526 - 41 Jun 18th: 522 - 33 Jul 16th: 501 - 31 Total: 4549 - 219
      - tencentshill 2mo ago
        The only sources I can find for that are all Russian. Wikipedia (Which I assume you will dismiss out of hand) says it's complicated to determine at best, as they both hide information and boost propaganda. At least don't state it as fact. No one actually knows, which is why citing sources is helpful so that weight can be added.
        helij 2mo ago
        Here's some from BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg7ed4rp7x5o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg7ed4rp7x5o and https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp9jl8vxdy9o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp9jl8vxdy9o) and one from Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-hands-ukraine-1000-war-dead-rbc-says-2026-04-09/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-hands-ukraine-10...). No reason not to believe these numbers as neither side denied it. The reasons for such numbers mismatch are many and don't always tell the story of who's "winning".
        SanjayMehta 2mo ago
        Mediazona is a British intelligence asset and even they can't find the Russian bodies that western propaganda hallucinates. While YouTube is full of videos of miles and miles of Ukrainian graveyards. No need to use the Wikipedia excuse.
    - mewpmewp2 2mo ago
      I mean I guess I disagree with the fact that it has any truth about being a "special military operation", when it is really an invasion where a country is trying to gain territory using ground forces etc. It's an invasion and a war, they wanted the binary outcome, they just didn't expect the opponent to push back so strongly.
- spacebanana7 2mo ago
  Rome lost loads of soldiers in the Germanic wars too. The parallel is that these wars are too expensive (for a non-existential conflict) to take to fulfilment, but also can't easily be disengaged from.
  - ryandvm 2mo ago
    > but also can't easily be disengaged from I guess it depends on what you mean by "easily", but Putin could very much just say "fuck this" and turn off the war machine in one day and it's not at all clear to me that there would be much consequential blowback other than the personal humiliation of one man. Would other countries now decide to attack Russia? Of course not. Would the oligarchs flip out and have him assassinated? No. Would the West disassemble the sanctioning apparatus? Eventually. But the real downside is just simple humiliation and to prevent that, they will continue sacrificing young men. Politics is a fucked up game.
bojan 2mo ago
Russia's goal is direct annexation of about quarter of the Ukrainian territory and installing a lifelong puppet regime to control the other three quarters. Ukrainians stand to lose not just their voice and any semblance of economic prosperity, but also their very identity. With the exception of extreme cases like Gaza, it doesn't get more binary than that.
- spacebanana7 2mo ago
  From Ukraine's perspective it's existential for sure. Russia however, just revises its objectives every few months according to how well/badly its prospects on the battlefield are looking.
  - microtonal 2mo ago
    Isn't it more that they started changing objectives because their original objectives turned out to be unattainable? I also think that for Putin it is pretty existential. Otherwise, they would have negotiated a temporary deal, took the pretty large amount of land that they had taken at the end of 2022. Work on another 'project' like Georgia for a few years, do a lot of disinformation campaigns in Europe in the meanwhile and then revisit Ukraine later. That would have a lot of benefits, like no reaming of Europe, no development of Ukraine's capabilities (resulting in a drastic drop in refinement capabilities), etc. But he couldn't. It would make him look weak and would make him vulnerable to a coup. Continuing is the only way for him.
- spwa4 2mo ago
  Russia's goals have far evolved over the course of the war, and started out comically ridiculous, prompting a great many people to ask questions about the information "bubble" around Putin. Over the past year, I believe most people would agree Russia has lost a LOT of ground when it comes to their war aims, even if not that much territory. 2014: seize Crimea (success, although it no longer serves any purpose) and Sevastopol (total failure, Sevastopol can no longer serve the Russian black sea fleet, and when it comes to the other goal: keep NATO out of the black sea, it's an even bigger failure. Russia has lost control of the skies above the black sea completely and are losing control over the sea of Azov, by withdrawing air defenses. Now go look on the map where the sea of Azov is to see the magnitude of this failure), prevent Ukraine from approaching NATO and EU (complete failure is putting it very mildly), keep Ukraine unstable (succeeded, until Euromaidan revolution, ie. actually this is a failure) 2022: maintain control over Crimea (looks to be failing, as in Ukraine still controls Crimea's water supply), build a land bridge to Crimea (successfull, except that they can't use their land bridge for anything), seize control over Ukraine's government ("denazify" Ukraine), demilitarize Ukraine (as in Ukraine accepts no to have an army. Obviously total and complete failure), and prevent Ukraine and others from coming closer to NATO (obviously total failure, and not just in Ukraine) In June 2026, ie. about 4 weeks ago, Russia once again confirmed these goals. Oh and they were going to do this in 3 days. Then in 3 weeks. Then in 2 months. Then they stopped making predictions. Today is day 1608 of their 3-day attempt.
enopod_ 2mo ago
For Ukraine it's very much an existential war. If they lose, Ukraine will cease to exist. The only way of winning is, well, winning this war. It is also very much a real war, with hundreds of thousands of deaths on both sides, a true massacre not seen in Europe since WW2. Trumps stupid war on Iran on the other hand is really just some air strikes, and Iran can win by just not losing, which is easy, because the US will not invade.
- hackinthebochs 2mo ago
  It's interesting how casually we replace concern for the population with concern for the political entity. No, the Ukrainian identity will not cease to exist with the replacement of the political entity.
  - enopod_ 2mo ago
    Ask Ukrainians what they think about that. Putin made it more than clear that he wants to erase the Ukrainian identity. [1] In this case, the political entity of Ukraine represents the Ukrainian population, which wants to be free, democratic, Europe-oriented, and last but not least, never ever be under Russian dictatorship again. Russias attitude towards Ukraine has turned borderline genocidal since the start of this war. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Historical_Unity_of_Russians_and_Ukrainians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Historical_Unity_of_Rus...
  - mewpmewp2 2mo ago
    What Russia has done in the past is take people who want to hold onto their old national identity and send them to labor camps far away where most will die, and migrate Russians to the areas so as generations go by Ukrainian identity would be fully gone.
  - IAmBroom 2mo ago
    You are stunningly unaware or maliciously ignoring the cultural genocide that Russia is engaging in, inside taken territories. Children are routinely taken from parents and shipped off to Russia. Parents are encarcerated, conscripted, or slaughtered.
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
prmph 2mo ago
It may not be a lot of dying at once, but some modern wars are rivaling these catastrophic wars of old in casualties. By some counts there have already been at least a million casualties in the Ukraine war, and in Gaza there is probably 100,000 casualties now (military + civilian). And, the conflicts in the eastern Democratic Republic of the Congo over the decades have produced about 5–5.4 million casualties, although accumulated over decades rather than in a single war. So modern conflicts may be lower intensity and lest existential, but they can be every bit as deadly.
- SanjayMehta 2mo ago
  https://sonar21.com/the-ny-times-lies-about-russian-and-ukrainian-casualties/ https://sonar21.com/the-ny-times-lies-about-russian-and-ukra...
  - prmph 2mo ago
    Your article is all over the place and seems to have agenda. It is unable to stay on point and present a coherent argument. I'd rather trust the Nytimes and the UK intelligence who have confirmed these losses, than some random website pushing an agenda. By hey, if it makes you happy to create you own reality, you do you.
    - SanjayMehta 2mo ago
      It's not my article. As for the NYT, read Ashley Rindsberg's "The Gray Lady Winked." And British intelligence? Okay then. Let me chortle into my single malt.

mewpmewp2 2mo ago

I mean Russia definitely keeps losing very many soldiers every day, I don't think that is comparable at all. It's completely different from US vs Iran.

SanjayMehta 2mo ago
This comment epitomises one of the reasons why the US does not and cannot win any war against a peer adversary. Flawed data.
- dralley 2mo ago
  I don't even understand what this comment is supposed to be saying in relation to the previous one.
  - SanjayMehta 2mo ago
    Look at the body exchange ratios between The Ukraine and Russia. Jan 29th: 1000 - 38 Feb 26th: 1000 - 35 Apr 9th: 1000 - 41 May 15th: 526 - 41 Jun 18th: 522 - 33 Jul 16th: 501 - 31 Total: 4549 - 219
    - tencentshill 2mo ago
      The only sources I can find for that are all Russian. Wikipedia (Which I assume you will dismiss out of hand) says it's complicated to determine at best, as they both hide information and boost propaganda. At least don't state it as fact. No one actually knows, which is why citing sources is helpful so that weight can be added.
      - helij 2mo ago
        Here's some from BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg7ed4rp7x5o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg7ed4rp7x5o and https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp9jl8vxdy9o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp9jl8vxdy9o) and one from Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-hands-ukraine-1000-war-dead-rbc-says-2026-04-09/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-hands-ukraine-10...). No reason not to believe these numbers as neither side denied it. The reasons for such numbers mismatch are many and don't always tell the story of who's "winning".
      - SanjayMehta 2mo ago
        Mediazona is a British intelligence asset and even they can't find the Russian bodies that western propaganda hallucinates. While YouTube is full of videos of miles and miles of Ukrainian graveyards. No need to use the Wikipedia excuse.
  - mewpmewp2 2mo ago
    I mean I guess I disagree with the fact that it has any truth about being a "special military operation", when it is really an invasion where a country is trying to gain territory using ground forces etc. It's an invasion and a war, they wanted the binary outcome, they just didn't expect the opponent to push back so strongly.
spacebanana7 2mo ago
Rome lost loads of soldiers in the Germanic wars too. The parallel is that these wars are too expensive (for a non-existential conflict) to take to fulfilment, but also can't easily be disengaged from.
- ryandvm 2mo ago
  > but also can't easily be disengaged from I guess it depends on what you mean by "easily", but Putin could very much just say "fuck this" and turn off the war machine in one day and it's not at all clear to me that there would be much consequential blowback other than the personal humiliation of one man. Would other countries now decide to attack Russia? Of course not. Would the oligarchs flip out and have him assassinated? No. Would the West disassemble the sanctioning apparatus? Eventually. But the real downside is just simple humiliation and to prevent that, they will continue sacrificing young men. Politics is a fucked up game.

bojan 2mo ago

Russia's goal is direct annexation of about quarter of the Ukrainian territory and installing a lifelong puppet regime to control the other three quarters. Ukrainians stand to lose not just their voice and any semblance of economic prosperity, but also their very identity. With the exception of extreme cases like Gaza, it doesn't get more binary than that.

spacebanana7 2mo ago
From Ukraine's perspective it's existential for sure. Russia however, just revises its objectives every few months according to how well/badly its prospects on the battlefield are looking.
- microtonal 2mo ago
  Isn't it more that they started changing objectives because their original objectives turned out to be unattainable? I also think that for Putin it is pretty existential. Otherwise, they would have negotiated a temporary deal, took the pretty large amount of land that they had taken at the end of 2022. Work on another 'project' like Georgia for a few years, do a lot of disinformation campaigns in Europe in the meanwhile and then revisit Ukraine later. That would have a lot of benefits, like no reaming of Europe, no development of Ukraine's capabilities (resulting in a drastic drop in refinement capabilities), etc. But he couldn't. It would make him look weak and would make him vulnerable to a coup. Continuing is the only way for him.
spwa4 2mo ago
Russia's goals have far evolved over the course of the war, and started out comically ridiculous, prompting a great many people to ask questions about the information "bubble" around Putin. Over the past year, I believe most people would agree Russia has lost a LOT of ground when it comes to their war aims, even if not that much territory. 2014: seize Crimea (success, although it no longer serves any purpose) and Sevastopol (total failure, Sevastopol can no longer serve the Russian black sea fleet, and when it comes to the other goal: keep NATO out of the black sea, it's an even bigger failure. Russia has lost control of the skies above the black sea completely and are losing control over the sea of Azov, by withdrawing air defenses. Now go look on the map where the sea of Azov is to see the magnitude of this failure), prevent Ukraine from approaching NATO and EU (complete failure is putting it very mildly), keep Ukraine unstable (succeeded, until Euromaidan revolution, ie. actually this is a failure) 2022: maintain control over Crimea (looks to be failing, as in Ukraine still controls Crimea's water supply), build a land bridge to Crimea (successfull, except that they can't use their land bridge for anything), seize control over Ukraine's government ("denazify" Ukraine), demilitarize Ukraine (as in Ukraine accepts no to have an army. Obviously total and complete failure), and prevent Ukraine and others from coming closer to NATO (obviously total failure, and not just in Ukraine) In June 2026, ie. about 4 weeks ago, Russia once again confirmed these goals. Oh and they were going to do this in 3 days. Then in 3 weeks. Then in 2 months. Then they stopped making predictions. Today is day 1608 of their 3-day attempt.

enopod_ 2mo ago

For Ukraine it's very much an existential war. If they lose, Ukraine will cease to exist. The only way of winning is, well, winning this war. It is also very much a real war, with hundreds of thousands of deaths on both sides, a true massacre not seen in Europe since WW2. Trumps stupid war on Iran on the other hand is really just some air strikes, and Iran can win by just not losing, which is easy, because the US will not invade.

hackinthebochs 2mo ago
It's interesting how casually we replace concern for the population with concern for the political entity. No, the Ukrainian identity will not cease to exist with the replacement of the political entity.
- enopod_ 2mo ago
  Ask Ukrainians what they think about that. Putin made it more than clear that he wants to erase the Ukrainian identity. [1] In this case, the political entity of Ukraine represents the Ukrainian population, which wants to be free, democratic, Europe-oriented, and last but not least, never ever be under Russian dictatorship again. Russias attitude towards Ukraine has turned borderline genocidal since the start of this war. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Historical_Unity_of_Russians_and_Ukrainians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Historical_Unity_of_Rus...
- mewpmewp2 2mo ago
  What Russia has done in the past is take people who want to hold onto their old national identity and send them to labor camps far away where most will die, and migrate Russians to the areas so as generations go by Ukrainian identity would be fully gone.
- IAmBroom 2mo ago
  You are stunningly unaware or maliciously ignoring the cultural genocide that Russia is engaging in, inside taken territories. Children are routinely taken from parents and shipped off to Russia. Parents are encarcerated, conscripted, or slaughtered.

deleted 2mo ago

[deleted]

prmph 2mo ago

It may not be a lot of dying at once, but some modern wars are rivaling these catastrophic wars of old in casualties. By some counts there have already been at least a million casualties in the Ukraine war, and in Gaza there is probably 100,000 casualties now (military + civilian). And, the conflicts in the eastern Democratic Republic of the Congo over the decades have produced about 5–5.4 million casualties, although accumulated over decades rather than in a single war. So modern conflicts may be lower intensity and lest existential, but they can be every bit as deadly.

SanjayMehta 2mo ago
https://sonar21.com/the-ny-times-lies-about-russian-and-ukrainian-casualties/ https://sonar21.com/the-ny-times-lies-about-russian-and-ukra...
- prmph 2mo ago
  Your article is all over the place and seems to have agenda. It is unable to stay on point and present a coherent argument. I'd rather trust the Nytimes and the UK intelligence who have confirmed these losses, than some random website pushing an agenda. By hey, if it makes you happy to create you own reality, you do you.
  - SanjayMehta 2mo ago
    It's not my article. As for the NYT, read Ashley Rindsberg's "The Gray Lady Winked." And British intelligence? Okay then. Let me chortle into my single malt.