6 ms·

I did a quick search, among all of the articles are people even doing their thesis work on this problem: https://www.gu.se/sites/default/files/2025-10/The%20rip

by jb1991 3mo ago

I did a quick search, among all of the articles are people even doing their thesis work on this problem: https://www.gu.se/sites/default/files/2025-10/The%20ripple%20effect%20of%20gang%20violence%20-%20Has%20the%20rise%20in%20shootings%20fueled%20anti-immigrant%20sentiment%20in%20Sweden.pdf https://www.gu.se/sites/default/files/2025-10/The%20ripple%2...

cinntaile 3mo ago
> Sweden has, more than any other country, faced an astounding and shocking rise of intense violence and organized crime, with shootings in the middle of cities and cafés, all linked to people that were openly accepted through its refugee programs. You claimed two things that I took issue with: The rise of intense violence and organized crime is higher than in any other country. All those crimes are linked to people openly accepted through its refugee programmes. A student thesis about "The Ripple Effect of Gang Violence" does not back up these claims. I am well aware that Sweden has had an increase in intense violence and organized crime in recent years, but that is not what you claimed. You were more specific.
- jb1991 3mo ago
  [flagged]
  - crtasm 3mo ago
    Not in the news I've been reading - perhaps your news sources deserve a more critical evaluation?
    - jb1991 3mo ago
      Some of the other commenters here (from Sweden, it seems) are doing a better job than me at explaining the problem, so I defer to them: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48977076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48977076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48976762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48976762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48977054 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48977054
  - cinntaile 3mo ago
    You didn't link it because it was an interesting thesis, you linked it to back up your claims when I asked for a source. Which it didn't do. You still need to provide a source for your claims. You can also retract your claims of course, that's fine too.
    - jb1991 3mo ago
      Sorry but this is a ridiculous request for something that has been so widely reported on over the last two years. You can search for all those news articles if you are interested. For something like this, there is no burden for me to prove anything to you.
      - deleted 3mo ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 3mo ago
        [deleted]
    - jb1991 3mo ago
      Some of the other commenters here (from Sweden, it seems) are doing a better job than me at explaining the problem, so I defer to them: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48977076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48977076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48976762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48976762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48977054 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48977054
      - cinntaile 3mo ago
        Sure, pick one of their sources to support your claims. If they already did the job for you it should be very easy. To reiterate your claims: > Sweden has, more than any other country, faced an astounding and shocking rise of intense violence and organized crime, with shootings in the middle of cities and cafés, all linked to people that were openly accepted through its refugee programs. 1. Which link proves that Sweden has had a more shocking rise of intense violence and organized crime than all other countries in the world? 2. Which link proves that they are all linked to people that were openly accepted through its refugee programs? Regarding 1. it would also be interesting to know which time period you are referring to, because that's pretty much a prerequisite for a claim like that.
  - Hikikomori 3mo ago
    >all linked to people that were openly accepted through its refugee programs Large increase in gang violence yes. But this is a pretty strong and specific claim, I live in Sweden and have not seen this in the news. Some of the gangs part of the gangswars are MC related clubs like Bandidos which seem to be mostly ethnically Swedes, and they've been an issue for decades. Arguably part of the problem is our emulation of US war on drugs, it failed there and its obviously failing here and allows gangs to have large income. Together with bad integration and prospects for children of immigrants/refugees allows gangs to influence and exploit them to do crime and attacks for them.
    - jb1991 3mo ago
      > I live in Sweden and have not seen this in the news I'm genuinely surprised by this. I live in a nearby country and it is in the news every few months.
      - Hikikomori 3mo ago
        Still waiting for your links about _all_ gang crime being linked to refugees.
surgical_fire 3mo ago
You use a very vague language to tie violence in Sweden to immigrants. Then you link a study without really going much about how the study supports your claims, as if that is evidence of what you suggest. You are gesturing to one thing - "there's a study on gang violence in Sweden" - and presenting it as evidence of another thing - "immigrants are to blame for gang violence". So I decided to engage with it and read the damn thing; I suppose you did not (or if you did you are hypocritically linking it hoping no one else does: > One of the most consistent findings in research on societal responses to a collective threat is the tendency for the majority population to seek culpability, often by attributing blame to an outgroup perceived to be associated with the perpetrators (Frey, 2022; Ramirez and Kim, 2024). This process, known as scapegoating, is a psychological coping mechanism in which individuals displace frustration or anxiety onto an entire group (Frey, 2022). And this, buddy, is precisely what you are doing.
- dijit 3mo ago
  > So I decided to engage with it and read the damn thing Huh, so did I... but clearly one of us didn't read it thoroughly enough. The first sentence of the abstract says the surge in shootings is "disproportionately involving young men with immigrant backgrounds". Page 2: people with an immigrant background are 80% of shooting victims and 64% of perpetrators (citing Brå). You seem to just skip to the theory section page 13 regarding scapegoating. To be fair, the original claim was overcooked in two places. "All linked" should be "most", and "more than any other country" needs a qualifier: 1) Brå compared Sweden with 22 other European countries. Sweden is the only one with a continuous rise in gun homicide since 2005 https://bra.se/english/publications/archive/2021-05-26-gun-homicide-in-sweden-and-other-european-countries https://bra.se/english/publications/archive/2021-05-26-gun-h... 2) the OECD's own conclusion was that 2014–15 Sweden saw the largest per-capita inflow of asylum seekers ever recorded in an OECD country https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/international-migration-outlook-2016_migr_outlook-2016-en.html https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/international-migration... 3) Brå's register study puts the relative risk of being a crime suspect at 2.5x for the foreign-born and 3.2x for the second generation, with excess risk remaining after controlling for age, sex, income and education https://bra.se/english/publications/archive/2021-08-25-registered-offending-among-persons-of-native-and-non-native-background https://bra.se/english/publications/archive/2021-08-25-regis... https://bra.se/download/18.45e4b8e192705389a34c2b/1729515966490/2021_9_Registered_offending_among_persons.pdf https://bra.se/download/18.45e4b8e192705389a34c2b/1729515966... The most dangerous, then, are "Swedish" persons with a migrant background, born and raised in Sweden- I'm not sure how to answer that, but that's really uncomfortable. 4) None of this is a fringe reading. Magdalena Andersson (Social Democrat, then PM) said in 2022 that integration had failed and produced parallel societies feeding the gangs... Kristersen as PM (right wing) said the same thing a year later.. so it has some broad bipartisan agreement. https://www.euronews.com/2022/04/29/us-sweden-immigration https://www.euronews.com/2022/04/29/us-sweden-immigration https://www.government.se/speeches/2023/09/prime-minister-ulf-kristerssons-address-to-the-nation/ https://www.government.se/speeches/2023/09/prime-minister-ul...

by jb1991 3mo ago

cinntaile 3mo ago

> Sweden has, more than any other country, faced an astounding and shocking rise of intense violence and organized crime, with shootings in the middle of cities and cafés, all linked to people that were openly accepted through its refugee programs. You claimed two things that I took issue with: The rise of intense violence and organized crime is higher than in any other country. All those crimes are linked to people openly accepted through its refugee programmes. A student thesis about "The Ripple Effect of Gang Violence" does not back up these claims. I am well aware that Sweden has had an increase in intense violence and organized crime in recent years, but that is not what you claimed. You were more specific.

jb1991 3mo ago
[flagged]
- crtasm 3mo ago
  Not in the news I've been reading - perhaps your news sources deserve a more critical evaluation?
  - jb1991 3mo ago
    Some of the other commenters here (from Sweden, it seems) are doing a better job than me at explaining the problem, so I defer to them: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48977076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48977076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48976762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48976762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48977054 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48977054
- cinntaile 3mo ago
  You didn't link it because it was an interesting thesis, you linked it to back up your claims when I asked for a source. Which it didn't do. You still need to provide a source for your claims. You can also retract your claims of course, that's fine too.
  - jb1991 3mo ago
    Sorry but this is a ridiculous request for something that has been so widely reported on over the last two years. You can search for all those news articles if you are interested. For something like this, there is no burden for me to prove anything to you.
    - deleted 3mo ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 3mo ago
      [deleted]
  - jb1991 3mo ago
    Some of the other commenters here (from Sweden, it seems) are doing a better job than me at explaining the problem, so I defer to them: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48977076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48977076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48976762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48976762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48977054 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48977054
    - cinntaile 3mo ago
      Sure, pick one of their sources to support your claims. If they already did the job for you it should be very easy. To reiterate your claims: > Sweden has, more than any other country, faced an astounding and shocking rise of intense violence and organized crime, with shootings in the middle of cities and cafés, all linked to people that were openly accepted through its refugee programs. 1. Which link proves that Sweden has had a more shocking rise of intense violence and organized crime than all other countries in the world? 2. Which link proves that they are all linked to people that were openly accepted through its refugee programs? Regarding 1. it would also be interesting to know which time period you are referring to, because that's pretty much a prerequisite for a claim like that.
- Hikikomori 3mo ago
  >all linked to people that were openly accepted through its refugee programs Large increase in gang violence yes. But this is a pretty strong and specific claim, I live in Sweden and have not seen this in the news. Some of the gangs part of the gangswars are MC related clubs like Bandidos which seem to be mostly ethnically Swedes, and they've been an issue for decades. Arguably part of the problem is our emulation of US war on drugs, it failed there and its obviously failing here and allows gangs to have large income. Together with bad integration and prospects for children of immigrants/refugees allows gangs to influence and exploit them to do crime and attacks for them.
  - jb1991 3mo ago
    > I live in Sweden and have not seen this in the news I'm genuinely surprised by this. I live in a nearby country and it is in the news every few months.
    - Hikikomori 3mo ago
      Still waiting for your links about _all_ gang crime being linked to refugees.

surgical_fire 3mo ago

You use a very vague language to tie violence in Sweden to immigrants. Then you link a study without really going much about how the study supports your claims, as if that is evidence of what you suggest. You are gesturing to one thing - "there's a study on gang violence in Sweden" - and presenting it as evidence of another thing - "immigrants are to blame for gang violence". So I decided to engage with it and read the damn thing; I suppose you did not (or if you did you are hypocritically linking it hoping no one else does: > One of the most consistent findings in research on societal responses to a collective threat is the tendency for the majority population to seek culpability, often by attributing blame to an outgroup perceived to be associated with the perpetrators (Frey, 2022; Ramirez and Kim, 2024). This process, known as scapegoating, is a psychological coping mechanism in which individuals displace frustration or anxiety onto an entire group (Frey, 2022). And this, buddy, is precisely what you are doing.

dijit 3mo ago
> So I decided to engage with it and read the damn thing Huh, so did I... but clearly one of us didn't read it thoroughly enough. The first sentence of the abstract says the surge in shootings is "disproportionately involving young men with immigrant backgrounds". Page 2: people with an immigrant background are 80% of shooting victims and 64% of perpetrators (citing Brå). You seem to just skip to the theory section page 13 regarding scapegoating. To be fair, the original claim was overcooked in two places. "All linked" should be "most", and "more than any other country" needs a qualifier: 1) Brå compared Sweden with 22 other European countries. Sweden is the only one with a continuous rise in gun homicide since 2005 https://bra.se/english/publications/archive/2021-05-26-gun-homicide-in-sweden-and-other-european-countries https://bra.se/english/publications/archive/2021-05-26-gun-h... 2) the OECD's own conclusion was that 2014–15 Sweden saw the largest per-capita inflow of asylum seekers ever recorded in an OECD country https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/international-migration-outlook-2016_migr_outlook-2016-en.html https://www.oecd.org/en/publications/international-migration... 3) Brå's register study puts the relative risk of being a crime suspect at 2.5x for the foreign-born and 3.2x for the second generation, with excess risk remaining after controlling for age, sex, income and education https://bra.se/english/publications/archive/2021-08-25-registered-offending-among-persons-of-native-and-non-native-background https://bra.se/english/publications/archive/2021-08-25-regis... https://bra.se/download/18.45e4b8e192705389a34c2b/1729515966490/2021_9_Registered_offending_among_persons.pdf https://bra.se/download/18.45e4b8e192705389a34c2b/1729515966... The most dangerous, then, are "Swedish" persons with a migrant background, born and raised in Sweden- I'm not sure how to answer that, but that's really uncomfortable. 4) None of this is a fringe reading. Magdalena Andersson (Social Democrat, then PM) said in 2022 that integration had failed and produced parallel societies feeding the gangs... Kristersen as PM (right wing) said the same thing a year later.. so it has some broad bipartisan agreement. https://www.euronews.com/2022/04/29/us-sweden-immigration https://www.euronews.com/2022/04/29/us-sweden-immigration https://www.government.se/speeches/2023/09/prime-minister-ulf-kristerssons-address-to-the-nation/ https://www.government.se/speeches/2023/09/prime-minister-ul...