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Your main source is Ryan Greenblatt who is a regular recipient of community notes and has no corroboration for the 15% statistic other than his assertion. The o

Your main source is Ryan Greenblatt who is a regular recipient of community notes and has no corroboration for the 15% statistic other than his assertion. The other tweet (Sauers_) is also community noted as engagement farming with a false system prompt, so forgive me for being skeptical.

tristanj 3mo ago
Including the three sources above, multiple others have reported that K3 self-identifies as Claude. "I'm actually Claude - not Kimi". https://x.com/PimDeWitte/status/2077884701470040083 https://x.com/PimDeWitte/status/2077884701470040083 I regret to inform you that it is, in fact, real and from their own website - you don’t even need to try hard to reproduce it. https://x.com/PimDeWitte/status/2078105292965912690 https://x.com/PimDeWitte/status/2078105292965912690 lmao this is so funny, if you ask Kimi K3 for something with an empty system prompt it will consistently think of itself as Claude https://x.com/__alula/status/2078359305741275445 https://x.com/__alula/status/2078359305741275445 "I genuinely believe I'm Claude based on everything in my training" https://x.com/williawa/status/2077869021589033002 https://x.com/williawa/status/2077869021589033002 another "I'm actually Claude - not Kimi", including the system prompt https://x.com/jchudnov/status/2078661564803207406/photo/1 https://x.com/jchudnov/status/2078661564803207406/photo/1
- remexre 3mo ago
  my first prompt to any Kimi model was K3 via Pi, some version of "hi kimi!!" and the response was telling me "I'm actually Claude." this is not hard to repro, just use a system prompt that doesn't mention the model name. that said, if they bootstrapped with opus 4.6 convo sft data they had sitting around... so what?
  - tristanj 3mo ago
    The main story is what isn't being talked about. Chinese labs exfiltrated trillions of tokens of high-quality output from Anthropic and OpenAI, through proxies and heavily discounted token resellers, which they distilled and used for training data for their own models. Instead of spending 12-18 months building their own robust harnesses and painstakingly creating quality training data (which is what Anthropic and OpenAI did), they distilled Anthropic's models to bypass the hardest parts of development. Chinese labs compressed 18 months of intensive research and development into just 6 months, and are now head-to-head with their American counterparts. Anthropic tried to complain about this unauthorized "token theft", but they burned too much public goodwill with BS safety restrictions and users don't care. The US government is too busy fighting a war to help. Chinese labs are offering highly capable, cheap, open-weight models; exactly what users want. The community is happy to overlook any questionable methods Chinese labs used to build them. The cope is incredible. There's people in this thread in denial that Moonshot AI is trained on exfiltrated Anthropic's model output, even when shown substantial evidence this has been happening since Kimi 2.X Chinese labs were even paying an absurd $0.01 per Opus tool call trace, to get the quantity of training data needed. Kimi K3 has reached the point of RSI, and no longer needs synthetic data generated by Anthropic/OpenAI models. K3 is now capable enough to generate, iterate, and improve its own training data recursively. The data exfiltration is complete. We witnessed the most extensive industrial espionage campaign, probably ever, and nobody in the industry cares at all that it happened.
    - remexre 3mo ago
      assuming the k3 model weights do indeed get published, if your model of the world is "achieving RSI is beneficial and K3 has done so," this feels structurally different from ordinary industrial espionage, because the knowledge has enriched the commons more like silk than capacitors if, again, your model is that RSI will be beneficial, why wouldn't making it available to all unlock more benefit globally than not doing that
      - torginus 3mo ago
        Sorry, but I have a thought that's off topic: If Kimi is good enough to improve itself, what's preventing someone who owns a big datacenter and nothing else, to just run Kimi to do AI research, thereby rendering the frontier labs more or less unnecessary?
    - vanviegen 3mo ago
      Shrug. Hard to feel sorry for companies that created their empires by ignoring copyright themselves. Also, 'most extensive industrial espionage campaign, probably ever' is absolute nonsense. They did not need to infiltrate the companies for this nor are you accusing them of stealing any trade secrets. This is only about whether they looked at their competitors' products from the outside (in the form of conversation tokens) and used it to improve their own product (by training). Hardly the crime of the century.
      - tristanj 3mo ago
        > 'most extensive industrial espionage campaign, probably ever' is absolute nonsense You are completely underestimating the scale of what is happening here. Chinese AI labs are actively facilitating an industrial-scale network of tens of thousands of bot accounts, that resell Claude tokens at 97% below official API prices. They buy subsidized Max 5x plans (sometimes with stolen credit cards), then split the subscription across dozens of clients and reselling the output. They are running a massive data-harvesting operation. Chinese labs and token resellers subsidize the cost of the tokens in exchange for the API metadata (detailed reasoning traces, model outputs, and tool calls) to use as high-quality training data for their own models. They are buying Anthropic's own product, just to resell it below cost, just so they can capture the training data. Reportedly, they are paying as much as ~$0.01 per tool call. https://x.com/yan5xu/status/2029743983522631698 https://x.com/yan5xu/status/2029743983522631698 I explained what is happening in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48664814 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48664814
- fuck_google 3mo ago
  Moonshot AI should have made it identify as Mythos as a practical joke to make US go crazy trying to figure out how they got access to it.

tristanj 3mo ago

Including the three sources above, multiple others have reported that K3 self-identifies as Claude. "I'm actually Claude - not Kimi". https://x.com/PimDeWitte/status/2077884701470040083 https://x.com/PimDeWitte/status/2077884701470040083 I regret to inform you that it is, in fact, real and from their own website - you don’t even need to try hard to reproduce it. https://x.com/PimDeWitte/status/2078105292965912690 https://x.com/PimDeWitte/status/2078105292965912690 lmao this is so funny, if you ask Kimi K3 for something with an empty system prompt it will consistently think of itself as Claude https://x.com/__alula/status/2078359305741275445 https://x.com/__alula/status/2078359305741275445 "I genuinely believe I'm Claude based on everything in my training" https://x.com/williawa/status/2077869021589033002 https://x.com/williawa/status/2077869021589033002 another "I'm actually Claude - not Kimi", including the system prompt https://x.com/jchudnov/status/2078661564803207406/photo/1 https://x.com/jchudnov/status/2078661564803207406/photo/1

remexre 3mo ago
my first prompt to any Kimi model was K3 via Pi, some version of "hi kimi!!" and the response was telling me "I'm actually Claude." this is not hard to repro, just use a system prompt that doesn't mention the model name. that said, if they bootstrapped with opus 4.6 convo sft data they had sitting around... so what?
- tristanj 3mo ago
  The main story is what isn't being talked about. Chinese labs exfiltrated trillions of tokens of high-quality output from Anthropic and OpenAI, through proxies and heavily discounted token resellers, which they distilled and used for training data for their own models. Instead of spending 12-18 months building their own robust harnesses and painstakingly creating quality training data (which is what Anthropic and OpenAI did), they distilled Anthropic's models to bypass the hardest parts of development. Chinese labs compressed 18 months of intensive research and development into just 6 months, and are now head-to-head with their American counterparts. Anthropic tried to complain about this unauthorized "token theft", but they burned too much public goodwill with BS safety restrictions and users don't care. The US government is too busy fighting a war to help. Chinese labs are offering highly capable, cheap, open-weight models; exactly what users want. The community is happy to overlook any questionable methods Chinese labs used to build them. The cope is incredible. There's people in this thread in denial that Moonshot AI is trained on exfiltrated Anthropic's model output, even when shown substantial evidence this has been happening since Kimi 2.X Chinese labs were even paying an absurd $0.01 per Opus tool call trace, to get the quantity of training data needed. Kimi K3 has reached the point of RSI, and no longer needs synthetic data generated by Anthropic/OpenAI models. K3 is now capable enough to generate, iterate, and improve its own training data recursively. The data exfiltration is complete. We witnessed the most extensive industrial espionage campaign, probably ever, and nobody in the industry cares at all that it happened.
  - remexre 3mo ago
    assuming the k3 model weights do indeed get published, if your model of the world is "achieving RSI is beneficial and K3 has done so," this feels structurally different from ordinary industrial espionage, because the knowledge has enriched the commons more like silk than capacitors if, again, your model is that RSI will be beneficial, why wouldn't making it available to all unlock more benefit globally than not doing that
    - torginus 3mo ago
      Sorry, but I have a thought that's off topic: If Kimi is good enough to improve itself, what's preventing someone who owns a big datacenter and nothing else, to just run Kimi to do AI research, thereby rendering the frontier labs more or less unnecessary?
  - vanviegen 3mo ago
    Shrug. Hard to feel sorry for companies that created their empires by ignoring copyright themselves. Also, 'most extensive industrial espionage campaign, probably ever' is absolute nonsense. They did not need to infiltrate the companies for this nor are you accusing them of stealing any trade secrets. This is only about whether they looked at their competitors' products from the outside (in the form of conversation tokens) and used it to improve their own product (by training). Hardly the crime of the century.
    - tristanj 3mo ago
      > 'most extensive industrial espionage campaign, probably ever' is absolute nonsense You are completely underestimating the scale of what is happening here. Chinese AI labs are actively facilitating an industrial-scale network of tens of thousands of bot accounts, that resell Claude tokens at 97% below official API prices. They buy subsidized Max 5x plans (sometimes with stolen credit cards), then split the subscription across dozens of clients and reselling the output. They are running a massive data-harvesting operation. Chinese labs and token resellers subsidize the cost of the tokens in exchange for the API metadata (detailed reasoning traces, model outputs, and tool calls) to use as high-quality training data for their own models. They are buying Anthropic's own product, just to resell it below cost, just so they can capture the training data. Reportedly, they are paying as much as ~$0.01 per tool call. https://x.com/yan5xu/status/2029743983522631698 https://x.com/yan5xu/status/2029743983522631698 I explained what is happening in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48664814 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48664814
fuck_google 3mo ago
Moonshot AI should have made it identify as Mythos as a practical joke to make US go crazy trying to figure out how they got access to it.