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Absolutely true. But China’s industrial dominance is also the government immiserating its people, just in a different way. Domestic consumption in China is famo
by mlsu 3mo ago
Absolutely true. But China’s industrial dominance is also the government immiserating its people, just in a different way. Domestic consumption in China is famously low, work culture is famously bad (996,etc). And this is because of what their government, not the people of China, have chosen to do.
- lokar 3mo agoConsumption is not just low, it’s intentionally suppressed.
- coldtea 3mo ago>But China’s industrial dominance is also the government immiserating its people Didn't they bring hundreds of millions out of poverty, and built amazing cities and facilities in the past 30 years? >Domestic consumption in China is famously low Compared to what, the US? Compared to China is at a historical high, isn't it? And they're doing quite well even compared to like 70% of the world and rising.
- faitswulff 3mo ago> Didn't they bring hundreds of millions out of poverty, and built amazing cities and facilities in the past 30 years? Yes, but China-bad ideology demands that we ask ”at what cost?”
- UltraSane 3mo agoChina isn't bad, the CCP is.
- faitswulff 3mo agoThat simplistic characterization is still essentially "China-bad." The CCP is the same government responsible for lifting historically unprecedented numbers of people out of abject poverty. Does it make up for other human rights violations? No. But "CCP bad" flattens a complex and powerful political organization into a fairy tale boogeyman.
- UltraSane 3mo agoThe worst part of the CCP is it's hatred for free speech https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jul/16/hong-kong-bookstore-bookshop-raids-arrests https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jul/16/hong-kong-book... Five arrested in Hong Kong bookstore raids in ‘seditious’ materials crackdown Third round of arrests linked to independent bookshops widely regarded as clampdown on dissent in territory
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- coldtea 3mo agoIf that's the "worst part" about them, reacting like that to sedition plans, it sounds quite tame. It's not like people elsewhere, cough, are not arrested for protesting against the bombing in Palestine or against ICE. Or, on the other side of the pond (and on the other side of the political spectrum), for tweeting against illegal immigration to their country. Or in Germany for merely calling the chancellor an idiot.
- UltraSane 3mo ago[flagged]
- scarecrowbob 3mo agoA lot of us have very little love for authoritarian regimes. At the same time, all through out my life I have seen folks in the US us their fantasies CCP as reason to accept a government that they feel is the gold standard for freeedom. I submit to you that what you're hearing are folks who are even more concerned with not being oppressed than you are telling you that it's not that great here for those of us on, say, the anarchist left or among the black radical tradition or whatever. If your history begins at the fall of the berlin wall and you are happy about the ecological destruction being directly created by the US and the carcerial state it represents then of course you're going to read things the way you do. But the reality is that most of us are just tired of hearing how fucking free the US is when they just sentenced 19 of our people in Texas to what are effectively life sentences for participating in a protest that went sideways when one participant decided he didn't want to see the state summarily execute a kid for vandalism.
- holoduke 3mo agoThe CCP now has proved a 'better' system than the western 'democracy' that is in many ways at the end of its life.
- rangestransform 3mo agoThere was a real human cost to how China industrialized that isn’t “muh freedoms”. China overproduced STEM grads so that their industries could hire them for pennies on the dollar. They had to withstand insane competition starting in elementary school, only to end up unemployed or doordashing. This isn’t a PRC specific thing either, TSMC is infamous for having PhDs doing night shift lab tech work for pennies (comparatively).
- Robotbeat 3mo agoIn general, I do think the East Asian nations have over-prioritized work for export and industrial policy at the expense of the well-being of their citizens.
- numpad0 3mo agoIt feels to me more like, East Asian nations tend to have robust domestic sets of expectations that tend to be more stringent, reinforced by geological and cultural barriers, and comparatively lower international castes. Anyone born in EA have no choice but to constantly beat the average and to make contributions to the street cred jar for the nation. And that produce such things as TSMC chips and DJI drones and 7-11 egg salad sandwiches.
- nl 3mo ago> having PhDs doing night shift lab tech work for pennies I don't know why people keep bringing this up as though it is surprising. In almost any field other than AI PhDs are underpaid on average. There are many, many bio PhDs working as lab technicians.
- seanmcdirmid 3mo ago> This isn’t a PRC specific thing either, TSMC is infamous for having PhDs doing night shift lab tech work for pennies (comparatively). Engineers from Taiwan go to mainland China these days to earn more money. Taiwan was pretty brutal with personal sacrifice in its development as much or if more than the mainland. We could say similar about Korea, Japan, and Singapore as well. This is why Asia seems to be taking over the world now, but the people are about as happy as you’d expect.
- indemnity 3mo agoI wonder if similar costs were paid when the West was industrializing? Spoiler: Yes.
- Scroll_Swe 3mo ago>Didn't they bring hundreds of millions out of poverty, and built amazing cities and facilities in the past 30 years? So did the western world. Ask Poland, the Baltics and East Germany if they want communism back. I'll wait. :) I am so tired of the praise of China online while condemning the west. Worst part is you probably live in the west. *Nono, dont reply, just downvote instead :)
- kanbara 3mo agoChina is not Iron Curtain countries dominated by the USSR. to compare China to Poland has no merit. China has built high speed rail, a quality universal health care system, and huge tech and mfg sectors. It most certainly is orders of magnitude above East Germany, and not even the same type of socialism. There are good things about the West and good things about China, it’s not as simple as “our side good”.
- Scroll_Swe 3mo agoChina is still a dictatorship who massacred its own people despite building high speed rail... They only got it good when the USA opened relations in the 80s something they never did with Soviet. China does not have universal health care. China helps Russia invade Ukraine. That is simple. Unless you like that too? Also, where do people want to live? North EU. Yet when we keep our lands people call us racist.
- OtomotO 3mo agoAnd the US calls itself a democracy and kills innocent people abroad. I don't see any merit in these simplistic world views. The world isn't Lord of the Rings, it's more A Song Of Ice And Fire.
- spunker540 3mo agoCan't a democracy vote and agree to kill innocent people abroad? Not sure those things are discordant.
- fragmede 3mo agoFor bringing people out of poverty, they had laminated placards attached to the doors of people who were poor, and the name of the government official who was responsible for lifting that family out of poverty, and if that government official failed at it, they wouldn't advance in their career.
- 20after4 3mo agoThat's actually kind of brilliant.
- Robotbeat 3mo agoNot as much as their East Asian neighbors, who had increasing democracy and fewer deaths to starvation…
- simplisticelk 3mo agoYes, their system has lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty, but government policy is now making Chinese consumers poorer than they otherwise would be in order to support domestic industry. It seem’s to be for geo-strategic reasons rather than in the interests of the Chinese people, it’s also probably unsustainable.
- shunia_huang 3mo agoWOW the classic yes...but..., where's these statement coming from? I'm Chinese and I don't get the point here at all, you guys seem living in vacuum with biased news, and know much much better than we people living here, that's really confusing everytime I see/read comments lie this. China now is open freely for almost everyone, come and see by yourslef, if you not living poverty. The world itslef does not work the propaganda way whether you dislike or hate the gov for whatever reason. And yes you can criticize the gov as you like with the news you read otr the party you pro with, but never assume how the people feel and belives if you are not the people, and if you do then that's the same mindset as Trump or any other war-bringing president the US had, and you know what they did and still doing.
- AuthorizedCust 3mo agoTell your neighbors, friends, and government bureaucrats about the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre. Let me know how that goes.
- holoduke 3mo agoIs that all you can find? Pretty empty list. I can probably create a long list of atrocities done by the west last 5 years alone.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- graemep 3mo agoThat is the point. You can create the list openly and without fear. You can create a long list of Chinese atrocities, but mentioning even one will get you into a lot of trouble.
- graemep 3mo ago> Didn't they bring hundreds of millions out of poverty, and built amazing cities and facilities in the past 30 years? A lot of that was the result of stopping doing the damage they had done in previous five decades that resulted in such a high proportion of their population living in poverty.
- saturn8601 3mo agoWork Culture is famously bad? Look I get 996. The Youth seem like they are either next level burned out or on a treadmill that never ends(due to the 25% youth unemployment, the deflation happening and the extreme overabundance of educated professionals). Both are not good. But the original comment listed stellar companies and products that wipe the floor with American made junk. You don't get that without some extensive hard work. Stealing only takes to so far, you gotta do a lot more on top of that.
- Spooky23 3mo agoNot for nothing, but what do you think is happening in the United States? American workers have lost income on inflation adjusted terms from 2000-2025. The top 5 companies have a market cap that exceeds the top 30 in 2000, and the concentration of those companies is a single industry vs a diverse collection. Consolidation of power and capital is reality everywhere. China is not a boogeyman. Go there.