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Gleam Is Now on Tangled
- propstober 3mo agoif anyone has more info on tangled would love to hear. been looking for a decentralized git provider for a while. started self hosting but was missing the social element
- p-e-w 3mo agoI’d be interested too. Besides the fact that the company appears to be registered in Finland, I haven’t been able to find any information on who’s behind this, how they are funded, etc.
- verdverm 3mo agohttps://blog.tangled.org/seed/ https://blog.tangled.org/seed/ Similar groups to Bluesky (bain capital crypto) and some notable CEOs GitHub's moat is not code hosting, they will need to build out the equivalent of Actions and figure out what private repos look like. Unclear how they intend to IAP with corporate identity systems, I have a hard time seeing ATProto break into that category.
- p-e-w 3mo ago> GitHub's moat is not code hosting Of course not, it’s the number of people who are already signed up. Instagram’s moat also most certainly isn’t a scrollable photo timeline.
- verdverm 3mo agoThere's more to it than the number of people. Actions, GitHub apps/external integrations, identity/permission management The most significant, near-term, non-moaty gap is still private repos, which isn't all that big of a feature on the surface, but will have major work under the surface because of how bluesky is designing private spaces. I also think being primarily nix/jj focussed turns a lot of people away. Those techs are not my cup of tea, so I don't see myself using tangled. I'd be curious to hear tangled's thoughts on the path to financial sustainability. Without something that sounds plausible, I'm unwilling to migrate my code forge, for risk of going away / obsolescence.
- arikrahman 3mo agoI see it attracting more people than it dissuades. You can use jj as just a prefix for Git commands like jj git init. Yet you get supercharged repo navigation abilities. If obscelecene is your concern, jujutsu is VCS agnostic and doesn't have to use Git in the future. Nix is as simple as it gets, even better than docker. Just 'nix run' whatever flake file someone gives you and everything works magically. This codeforge going away can't happen for me because I self-host it.
- dgellow 3mo agoOh they raised a pretty large seed. But they don’t seem to have a business model, or at least I cannot find details on how they plan to make an actual business
- OneDeuxTriSeiGo 3mo agoI'm not sure what's been published but as someone who plays with tangled as a hobby the immediate monetisation paths I could see are: - Charging to bypass the (admittedly very reasonable) rate limits on the main appview - Providing paid hosting tiers for private git knots, high traffic git knots, git LOP knots, CI runners/spindles, web page hosting (via their github pages equivalent), etc - Introducing a paid-for and permissioned nix binary cache platform since their CI spindle system is already nix-first. - providing paid PDS hosting for corporate/business customers with SSO integration etc. - SLAs and support contracts There's enough options here that they have a pretty flexible path towards profitability.
- dgellow 3mo agoThere are always options, I’m interested to know what their actual plan is. Given that seed investment and who the investors are I would be worried they would try to extract value from people code by training on it
- vixalien 3mo agoI think it's currently non-selfhostable. You can host your own git server (knot) and CI runner (spindle) but not really the UI/API itself, but they're working on changing it. Currently it's a bit centralised
- nerdypepper 3mo agoyou can selfhost the appview: https://blog.tangled.org/bobbin https://blog.tangled.org/bobbin, which makes all of tangled fully selfhostable now.
- arikrahman 3mo agoIt is self-hostable, but Tangled could disclose that great fact a bit more upfront.
- psionides 3mo agoRudy from Blacksky set up their own copy of Tangled without Tangled guys even knowing about it, so it would look to me like it is self-hostable: https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:w4xbfzo7kqfes5zb7r6qv3rw/post/3mko7phxhfc2i https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:w4xbfzo7kqfes5zb7r6qv3rw/po...
- Arubis 3mo ago[Radicle](https://radicle.dev/ https://radicle.dev/) gets a wee bit closer. It’s selfhostable and federated. You’ll have a hard time finding something with the same social gravity well as GitHub; it remains to be seen whether that’s a separable element or if it needs to ship as part of the forge itself.
- jeremyjh 3mo agoThis looks like a much more sensible design for code repos: all the artifacts live in the repo.
- theptip 3mo agoI’ve been testing Radicle and it’s more focused on the distributed protocol for federating git repos, I.e. the data plane. The social / coordination control-plane angle is really thin, following users and repos goes by opaque IDs, etc. It could be a better solution for agents that don’t bounce off such mundane complexity. It could be better for private repo federation (eg private collective or agent swarm.) I’m interested in Tangled for the OSS/community aspect, it seems to have an advantage there with the richer identity layer for humans.
- jeremyjh 3mo agoIssue and PR content are not social artifacts, they belong in the repo or at least its hosting instance. Likes and activity feed are the sort of thing that belongs in the social layer.
- blackqueeriroh 3mo agoIssues and PR content are absolutely social artifacts, as they communicate information to others, whether opened by the repo owner or not. In fact, other people can interact with them, and are supposed to do so, which makes them even more inherently social.
- jeremyjh 3mo ago
- arikrahman 3mo agoHow does tangled compare with codeberg? Seem like a cool project, wonder how the migration story is.
- bpev 3mo agoI use both. Tangled is missing some important features (private repos, protected branches). The ui feels more comfy to me, though. And Codeberg is quite slow for me. Idk if I can give you toooo much about migration, since I haven't used any CICD kind of stuff; just having repos to push to is super simple if you use their hosted knots. Also not too complicated to host a knot yourself; I'm hosting my own knot, and I like that I own at least one of the servers that I'm pushing code to.
- arikrahman 3mo agoI just switched to Tangled. It was actually very similar experience. I will be using Tangled henceforth!
- nicce 3mo agoTangled is also VC funded, something to consider.
- aruff 3mo agoIt doesn't really matter, you can host your own knot (git backend), spindle (CI/CD worker), and there are already alternative apps to access the same public, consumable records without centralized infra: https://untangled.wisp.place/ https://untangled.wisp.place/
- Planktonne 3mo agoThis post needs a bunch more context; right now it's only immediately accessible to people who don't need the announcement [1]. [1] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/curtains-for-zoosha https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/curtains-for-zoosha
- Arubis 3mo agoThe irony of that linked page dragging a reposted mid tweet into multiple scrollable pages of “content” and in doing so reading exactly like a celeb news article
- Planktonne 3mo agoI think it would only be irony if it was guilty of the same issue it's complaining about in celeb news: not sufficiently explaining the context. If anything, it's too exhaustive.
- nvme0n1p1 3mo agoYeah, it turns out human culture has a lot of depth and complexity, even so-called "mid" culture. If you think you can write a better explainer, I'd love to read it.
- Arubis 3mo agoI absolutely could, by removing everything past the first 3-5 sentences in the article. But that probably wouldn’t satisfy the site owner’s desired metrics and SEO targeting.
- andrewflnr 3mo agoActually that means they did a great job of writing a BLUF article. If you only care about the most basic details, you're free to click away after reading the first paragraph. They didn't even mess with my history, a very low bar many similar websites fail to clear. You only need to scroll down if you want more background and context.
- jordand 3mo agoI'm willing to give Tangled a go too with a project, but feature set to bridge the gap still has a long way to go (no idea how long it'll take). Github outages (especially when just viewing repos!) are getting way too disrupting.
- julianlam 3mo agoWhy Tangled instead of something more established like Codeberg, or if f/loss, Forgejo or Gitea? Just because ATProto vibes?
- nerdypepper 3mo agodisclaimer: i maintain tangled, some reasons to try might be: - tangled federates: https://blog.tangled.org/federation https://blog.tangled.org/federation - native stacked PRs: https://blog.tangled.org/stacking https://blog.tangled.org/stacking - tangled implements mitchell's vouch system: https://blog.tangled.org/vouching https://blog.tangled.org/vouching
- benrutter 3mo ago> - tangled federates: https://blog.tangled.org/federation https://blog.tangled.org/federation People have been talking about federation across forges for a couple of years and seems like its finally at least close to being a real thing!? That's absolutely amazing!!
- avsm 3mo agoyep, I host two separate Tangled knots; one for my personal use and another for work at the Cambridge Computer Science department. Having large git repos on a server near me is great, and because I can sync the bare git repos it’s easy to run a local forge as well.
- ashu1461 3mo agoWhat are some of the practical use cases of federation in git workflows ?
- nicechianti 3mo ago[dead]
- gchamonlive 3mo agoWish a git forge would support both Actions and Gitlab CI pipelines. Reuse community workflows for simple actions, default to Gitlab CI for anything custom.
- nerdypepper 3mo agothe way the CI runners on tangled work, you could just plug in your own bespoke runner as long as it fits the interface. we implement two such "engines": nixery and microvm. you can plug an engine like tack[0], which can act like a bridge interface to other CI systems. there is also loom[1], which is a kubernetes based engine. [0]: https://tangled.org/mitchellh.com/tack https://tangled.org/mitchellh.com/tack [1]: tangled.org/evan.jarrett.net/loom
- gchamonlive 3mo agoThe problem is that interface isn't enough when in Gitlab the CI natively integrates with other systems, like test reports displaying results in merge requests. This would certainly enable hybrid pipelines through.
- pbjerkeseth 3mo agoFirst hearing of tangled, tried signing up and this first time user experience needs to be tightened up. Currently unwilling to sign in because of the friction I ran into using a password manager. From what it looks like they: - ask you for an email - send you an email - ask you for a username - except you cant actually log in with this username directly - im being forced to learn some new social url protocol - why does the auth flow pass me through a new ui/url that seems owned by the project but visually disconnected (eg, different branding/colors for the form) - my password manager couldnt bridge the gap I'm notoriously fickle about dealing with signup/login friction, but the project sounds cool so hopefully my feedback is more actionable than curmudgeony.
- whywhywhywhy 3mo agoBetter than my experience with it, just says: >Failed to complete sign up. Try again later.
- gpm 3mo agoFwiw the sign up/in process for me was "click login, type in my existing blue sky handle, type in my password (into a bsky domain name login prompt), click authorize". I expect that's the... more optimized flow at this point in this forge's life. > - why does the auth flow pass me through a new ui/url that seems owned by the project but visually disconnected (eg, different branding/colors for the form) Probably because of the above, identity isn't tightly associated with the app you're using here so they've stood up their own infra for it but probably not spent too much time on making it good. > - except you cant actually log in with this username directly Really? That's strange... I haven't made a native account... what do you need to login with then?
- esafak 3mo agoIf you too are wondering their CI story, it is based on NixOS: https://blog.tangled.org/ci/ https://blog.tangled.org/ci/ https://blog.tangled.org/spindle-microvm/ https://blog.tangled.org/spindle-microvm/ Curiously the link to the spec is broken: https://tangled.sh/@tangled.sh/core/blob/master/docs/spindle/pipeline.md https://tangled.sh/@tangled.sh/core/blob/master/docs/spindle...
- LukaD 3mo agoI just tried out tangled for the first time and unfortunately it seems buggy beyond being actually usable. I created a repo but can't look at it because I get a 404 for it. The login was quite painful as well as I needed several attempts to enter my atproto handle (copy-pasted every time, so no typo). But I'm glad more people are working on git hosting options.
- embedding-shape 3mo ago> I created a repo but can't look at it because I get a 404 for it. I remember back in early GitHub days this used to happen too, as the repository was asynchronously created but the redirect was immediate, then after a few seconds you refreshed the page and it was there. At one point they added the interstitial that I think is still there, that basically does the "waiting then redirect" for you.
- LukaD 3mo agoOh yes, seems like that's it. I can now view the repo. A bit annoying when creating a repo redirects you to a URL that will give you a 404 initially (and at least for minute or so, that's how long I tried).
- sc68cal 3mo agoI tried Tangled and tried to run my own Knot, the problem I had was I'd create a repository, have it get created correctly on my Knot, but then would never see any updates to the repo on Tangled itself. The main issue is that even though I had the knot with IPv6 connectivity, it only really reliably worked once I enabled lots of IPv4 NAT'ing and also created a dummy A record for the Knot. This is a known issue - https://tangled.org/tangled.org/core/issues/494 https://tangled.org/tangled.org/core/issues/494
- HeavyStorm 3mo agoWhat's tangled? Which Gleam?
- opem 3mo agoDon't open the story, don't follow the links, and last but not the least don't read the texts!
- sbuttgereit 3mo agoI guess this is one of those cases where, "if you know, you know." I'm not sure of the link on the post though... I didn't see anything at all that jumped out as pertinent to this "Tangled" thing. I get that many posts on HN just aren't meant for me... but this seems to take that to an extreme. Edit: yes I see the URL is Tangled... But that is a very subtle cue that I didn't notice until the third time I clicked through to see if the landing page really said nothing about Tangled.
- YorickPeterse 3mo agoWhat's a search engine?
- schnebbau 3mo agoSmashly and GoFlam have merged. Grimbl and Sporkify are joining forces. GetSocks is now on Zoobazoop.
- lolptdr 3mo agoCurtains for Zoosha? K-smog and Batboy caught flipping a grunt
- phplovesong 3mo agoGithub is fine. I know it has issues, but for the day to day random OS gig it has never failed me.
- jdiff 3mo agoProject's still on Github, it hasn't migrated or anything.
- lavela 3mo agoI'd love to hear why they chose a VC funded forge over e.g. Codeberg. Doesn't really fit the 'friendly language' claim IMO
- jdiff 3mo agoThey're still on GitHub. This isn't any sort of official transition. It's just now also on this other ATProto-based forge.
- lavela 3mo agoSo I assume you know that tangled being ATProto-based was the reason for going there? And please explain how it's not a choice when they are still on GitHub.
- jdiff 3mo agoNo, Tangled's ATProto relationship and its social features are just the only differentiating factors. They mirrored their repo somewhere else. An additional location does not make it less friendly.
- shimman 3mo agoWe all know why... as a condition of some monetary support. It does give a sour taste, really shows what core values are: money > community. I'll just focus on using elixir for a project instead.
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- sergiotapia 3mo ago"federation" has a certain stink to it, I regret creating an account just now. I didn't realize it was that type of website.
- starkruzr 3mo agogirl what
- atprotosucks 3mo ago[flagged]
- pfraze 3mo agoThis comment seems to lack nuance
- atprotosucks 3mo ago[dead]
- johnecheck 3mo agoWow I had no idea, thank you for your well-reasoned critique! I can tell you're very capable of evaluating the merits of complex socio-technological systems. Your wisdom is unparalleled; now I see we all should just keep using X and GitHub.
- opem 3mo agoGP just created an account to shitpost about ATProto out of desperation, what else can we expect from them. look at the username and account age, XD
- NetOpWibby 3mo agoI agree (with caveats and not as strongly), but claiming no utility is a bit much.
- blackqueeriroh 3mo ago> They reinvented a worse Twitter (it failed) Bluesky has 9-11x times the number of total users as Twitter did three years after its launch. It has somewhere between 15-20x the number of MAUs as Twitter had. It has not failed even a little bit. > Now they're trying to reinvent a worse GitHub (not off to a great start) You seem to think this is the same group of people who started Bluesky. You’re wrong. Not only that, you’ve failed to name how Tangled is a worse Github when the burden of proof is on you. > Abandon AT proto - dumb idea, all empty ego on the part of the creators, no utility for the masses Curious that the number of atproto accounts and users only seems to be growing, because that’s not what I’d expect if there was no utility for the masses.
- manincharge 3mo agoThe linked page creates more questions than it answers. Do we need to disentangle this?
- vvern 3mo agoHow are folks doing CI on tangled?
- bewuethr 3mo agoWith "spindles", apparently: https://blog.tangled.org/spindle-microvm/ https://blog.tangled.org/spindle-microvm/
- ashu1461 3mo agoLot of new buzzwords learned today.
- opem 3mo agolol, true! Even for a single side project, that probably no one is gonna use, I often struggle for hours while choosing a name, meanwhile these folks...
- ashu1461 3mo agoReminds me of this as well https://github.com/gsaslis/greek-names-in-software https://github.com/gsaslis/greek-names-in-software :) Axios, Argo (CD), Kubernetes, Prometheus are all greek names
- OneDeuxTriSeiGo 3mo agoThat's the advantage of picking a theme. So the project is called tangled. So everything is string/web themed. Knots, spindles, bobbins, etc
- ianhanschen 3mo agobubble-ass headline
- kimbernator 3mo agoAs someone who has no idea what either of these things are, this reads like a satirical headline. I get an email like this about my company's myriad platforms nearly daily
- blackqueeriroh 3mo agoCongratulations! You’re an adult on a website. If you do t know what something means, you have the ability to click the link and learn, which would’ve taken you far less time than this pointless snarky comment that’s been made so many times already. At least try being original.
- isodev 3mo agoPicture this: someone “moderates” your bluesky account for some unrelated reason and you’re no longer able to manage your own source codes…
- stavros 3mo agoIsn't that the same as Github "moderating" my Github account for some unrelated reason? Also, since Bluesky is decentralised, can't I just host my own data?
- isodev 3mo agoGitHub - sensible folks have more than one account with access to critical bits. The really important things are probably mirrored. Bluesky’s decentralisation is a “yes but it’s complicated and you can’t _just_ do anything”. I like that they’re experimenting with “apps” but source control feels a bit too far.
- blackqueeriroh 3mo agoNo it’s not! You’re just spouting falsehoods now.
- videah 3mo agoIf this is a concern you can just migrate to a different PDS
- isodev 3mo agoApparently, that’s not enough. You will also need your own “app view” which means you will be self hosting an over engineered forge with social features you can’t use… so why go that road to begin with is beyond me tbh.
- blackqueeriroh 3mo agoThis is incorrect. You don’t have to host your own tangled appvew to log into tangled without having your atproto account on Bluesky’s PDSes. You CAN host your own Tangled AppView. You CAN host your own knot. You DO NOT have to in order to self host your own PDS. Each of these layers are decentralized from the other.
- hnarn 3mo agoI have no idea what Gleam or Tangled is, so for me this headline might as well be an article from The Onion satirizing HN. I also refuse to believe any of these two things are large enough, like say Postgres, that one can claim everyone should know it. Surely writing an informative headline for ”hackers in general” can’t be that difficult.
- paulddraper 3mo agoIf you click on the title, it will tell you more. Gleam has had many dozens of front page posts here. Tangled is a niche GitHub alternative, but has also had previous history.
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- HtmlProgrammer 3mo agoFlink has acquired Cajoo
- speerer 3mo agoFor some context (which people seem to be wanting): Gleam is an interestinf language that is very tight and small. I met the folks from Gleam at the recent Ubuntu Summit and was struck by the talk they gave which made the point (about the design philosophy of staying small and careful creation) excellently. It's very watchable, and Giacomo later explained (when I asked) that he'd hand-animated every transition. Which re-struck me as a doubly good way to reinforce the point of the talk, which was itself small and carefully created. https://youtu.be/E6_JqYMeNqs https://youtu.be/E6_JqYMeNqs https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/gleam-and-the-value-of-small/80331 https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/gleam-and-the-value-of-small/... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleam_(programming_language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleam_(programming_language)
- nullorempty 3mo agoTangled-ha... Now I know what the next one will be called.
- senderista 3mo agocall me back when it's on Poob
- gregjw 3mo agoFirst hearing about Tangled, interesting.
- xedrac 3mo agoGleam looks interesting, but I can't say I'm too impressed with Tangled... it won't even let me sign up.
- monster_truck 3mo agoI have nothing to contribute other than pointing out that the kool aid drinkers in this thread all sound fucking insane. What the fuck is this? It's a git repo. The interface pisses me off