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Regressive JPEGs
- vanderZwan 3mo agoI wonder if you can do this in JPEG-XL. I know that that has actual animation support, but this would be a different thing.
- cyberrock 3mo agoThe format supports progressive decoding but IIRC none of the current browser implementations support it. The first Chrome and Firefox implementations did, and I think it's on their roadmap for the new Rust implementation. No idea about WebKit/Safari. Edit: the format also supports region-of-interest decoding and I suspect you can make some cool maps or fractal images with both features. But I think they're not quite prioritizing implementing that right now.
- vanderZwan 3mo ago> The first Chrome and Firefox implementations did I was about to say: I'm sure I've seen it work a t some point? I imagine it's a valuable thing to add for the web though. It would be really cool if you could use the same image source for thumbnail and full image, and the browser both just figures out how much to download based on pixel size and can resume previously partially downloaded images. And yeah, the tiling isn't implemented anywhere yet, jxl doesn't really get enough funding for that. But it'll be really cool once it does since it also makes it really useful for giant images of geographic data. I don't know if it combines with streaming downloads as well, but it would be crazy cool if we effectively got OpenSeaDragon[0] support inside an image format [0] https://openseadragon.github.io/ https://openseadragon.github.io/
- diimdeep 3mo agoHere is another cat https://idiod.video/njz0kx.mp4 https://idiod.video/njz0kx.mp4
- cousin_it 3mo agoNice! I think you can approximate timing somewhat, by making your web server create the "jpeg" on the fly and send it to the client in timed chunks. The source could even be a webcam, so the "jpeg" would go on forever.
- londons_explore 3mo agoThere are already webcams which do this- but they use a mime trick for 'multipart/x-mixed-replace'. That's basically the server telling the client 'That data I just sent you, well now replace it with this new thing'. No JavaScript needed, and can work with plain http and jpeg
- SahAssar 3mo agoA lot of IP cameras already do this via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_JPEG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_JPEG
- iwontberude 3mo agoYou can do this with the gif too, I have once created a toy cgi that combined a gif sending one frame at a time with an image map allowing you to Remote Desktop with no JavaScript and click around. JPEG may have been a better choice, maybe I’ll revisit this.
- schobi 3mo agoI tried to think about difficult ways to compute the high frequency coefficients to work from the "wrong" coefficients of the first image... But this is clever - just smash them together. Low frequency of one image concatenated with high frequency from another. This works surprisingly well!
- xnx 3mo agoExcellent hack! Should definitely be possible to make an animated gif to jpeg converter. I guess the animation could be slowed a little by repeating frames.
- londons_explore 3mo agoYou can also deliberately have the server sending data at the right rate for the right playback time. Easy enough to add a delay() each frame if your server is python/nodejs/PHP/whatever
- robbak 3mo agoThat is 1. Cursed, and 2. Definitely in the right place here.
- alterom 3mo agoThis is the stuff that I come here for.
- wegwerf17377382 3mo agoMe too, thanks for reminding me of that
- bartread 3mo agoWeekend HN is definitely where the more interesting and offbeat content lives, and I often find myself enjoying it significantly more as a result. During the week, well, it would be unfair to call it LinkedInified, but it can often feel like a somewhat higher tier of that sort of strata. Plenty of good stuff in there still, but much more “serious business”.
- qurren 3mo agoMeanwhile the big techs: "Hmm how can we use this for fingerprinting"
- ilvez 3mo agoMy jaw dropped. Very cool. Thanks for sharing.
- solodynamo 3mo agohmm interesting
- LoganDark 3mo agoSafari just freezes in place until the image is entirely finished downloading.
- aetherspawn 3mo agoWorks fine for me on iOS
- Pijuspaul321 3mo agoThanks for sharing
- est 3mo ago> so playback is entirely dependent on network delay You can use Service Worker to emulate a slow connection :)
- luciana1u 3mo ago[flagged]
- korbatz 3mo agoIf the online porn industry hasn't used it, it's probably worthless. Still funny, though.
- Grimblewald 3mo agoinsanity of content aside, that's a really nice website. Kudos.
- Yokohiii 3mo agoAdjacent advice: I've recently played with opengl and jpeg turbo and I wanted to display images fast. I don't remember exact numbers, but enabling progressive for a jpeg was a significant slowdown for decoding. So if anyone like me is stuck with the old school advice that progressive is an nice to have, it's likely not. I personally don't remember any visual progressive image buildup in like decades, so it's not doing anything valuable at all.
- cubefox 3mo agoProgressive decoding isn't expected to speed up decoding, it's expected to speed up displaying large image files, especially for downloads via slow mobile connections. Example: https://youtube.com/watch?v=UphN1_7nP8U https://youtube.com/watch?v=UphN1_7nP8U
- Yokohiii 3mo agoI've started using computers in the 90s, I've seen this every day back then. Still the question is, does it help? Trying to access an average web app will probably take minutes before the browser may even see an image. If you do everything possible to render reasonably fast on very slow speeds, then progressive is nice. On a fast connection I don't think the average user will notice the difference.
- phyzome 3mo agoWhere it helps is in finding out if it's even the image you wanted. You get a sense of it from the fast first pass, and then can hit back if it's not the thing you thought it was.
- Self-Perfection 3mo agoJPEG photos stored as progressive usually take ~5% less space so there is value. And it is possible to losslessly transcode JPEG to progressive. Lossless transcoding to JPEG XL gives even more space savings though.
- chronogram 3mo ago
- tda 3mo agoI wonder if and how you can use this for steganography, hiding data in plain sight. I bet most automated image analysis programs would only consider the final image. I sure some highschooler can use this to bypass their schools contentfilter
- aetherspawn 3mo agoYep this is an AI subversion technique for sure. Put the message to the humans in the first frame, and the message to the AI in the final frame. This is how we defeat skynet: by sending each other pictures of cats.
- yonatan8070 3mo agoYou could probably implement a server that is purposefully slow enough so that the human frame shows up for however long you want. Just need to send the keepalive bytes one-by one.
- mike_hock 3mo agoI can't see any way this would beat regular steganography.
- Retr0id 3mo agoI did something very similar with progressive (adam7 interlaced) PNG: https://www.da.vidbuchanan.co.uk/adamation/image.png https://www.da.vidbuchanan.co.uk/adamation/image.png > so playback is entirely dependent on network delay Ultimately true, but I set up my server to send each "frame" separately, with a fixed delay between each. Each frame is small so unless your network is unusually slow, the timing is set by my server.
- jbochi 3mo agoAnd I did something similar to steam live video via an infinite gif: https://github.com/jbochi/gifstreaming#live-video-streaming-using-animated-gifs https://github.com/jbochi/gifstreaming#live-video-streaming-...
- Dwedit 3mo agoInteresting that people are making hacks of PNG to do animations, yet there's also APNG sitting over there saying "Hey I exist!"
- donatj 3mo agoYou don't even need a hack, there's built-in support for this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_JPEG https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_JPEG I've been here screaming "Motion JPEG EXISTS and is well supported in browsers" the entire time those gif hacks were popular. I've built a bunch of cool stuff with it. https://github.com/donatj/mjpeg-php/blob/master/mjpeg.php https://github.com/donatj/mjpeg-php/blob/master/mjpeg.php https://github.com/donatj/imgboard/blob/master/main.go https://github.com/donatj/imgboard/blob/master/main.go The PHP example here is an illustration of how easy it is to pull off, and the Go example is part of a JavaScript-free multiuser drawing board.
- Retr0id 3mo agoWe even have proper video codecs like h264!
- account42 3mo ago
- pavlov 3mo ago> “Besides unconventional rickrolls and other trolling, this has no practical applications: there's no way to add timing information, so playback is entirely dependent on network delay.” A progress bar for something that’s loading in parallel over the same network, to give the user an idea of how much the delay is?
- NewsaHackO 3mo agoIf i remember correctly, some other places of the internet (4chan) completely this sort of behavior because people use it to hide images of ...unsavory topics
- Gander5739 3mo agoI think you dropped a word.
- SonOfLilit 3mo agoIt's an onomatopoeia
- Gander5739 3mo agoYou mean an onomatope (to be pendantic)? In any case, it's not clear to me exactly what you mean.
- SonOfLilit 3mo agoApparently "onomatope" is a much less popular name for the same thing (e.g. Wikipedia uses my version). I mean that the "remove a word" 'symbol' is a 'word' that represents the verb he was trying to invoke, by sounding like it. Birds chirp, bees buzz, moderators, toilets flush.
- Gander5739 3mo agoApologies if I'm being totally thick, but you're saying the lack of a word is acting as an onomatope (or an onomatopoeia if you prefer)?
- remix2000 3mo agoWow, Firefox never fully loads the page, while WebKit fails to load it altogether, instead it displays "Operation was cancelled" in system font after a short freeze. I didn't manage to see the images change in any way as the post would suggest though, which left me confused.
- inigyou 3mo agoThis website appears to be maliciously using IP address blocking. Here is a less-censored link: https://web.archive.org/web/20260718065449/https://maurycyz.com/projects/bad_jpeg/ https://web.archive.org/web/20260718065449/https://maurycyz.... Obviously the demonstrations that rely on server-side timing don't work through archive.org.
- fractorial 3mo agoNow, stuff like _this_ is why I keep coming back to HN.
- fitsumbelay 3mo agomy kinda hackin' so much creative potential ...
- Jabdoa2 3mo agoNow you just have to mod your webserver to send the image chunk by chunk (with waits in-between). That way network latency does not matter. Also it probably reduces artefacts as bytes from one frame most likely are received in one network packet.
- akoboldfrying 3mo agoI love the first JPEG where the final image is... a different picture of the cat. "The first images you see are just approximations to the final, exact version." Audience's heads nod in understanding
- ingen0s 3mo agoYour website is inspiring
- smath 3mo agoIs it possible to acquire lower frequency components with a camera too? This also reminded me of MRI where low frequency is acquired first in a space called k-space
- einpoklum 3mo agoI like how that website has not just a "Dark" and "Light" mode, but also a monochromatic "TTY" mode.
- snailmailman 3mo agoWeird that it’s inconsistent Works fine for me in desktop Firefox. But on mobile iOS the “whole video within a jpeg” is 3 frames, all of which are nearly entirely solid color brown->orange->red with a vague cat silhouette. The color changes each frame, so you can tell it’s “working” but it’s certainly not what I’d call a video. I was surprised when I pulled it up on my desktop and it did actually play like a video. Wonder if it’s causing some weird iOS image decoding glitch/edge case.
- j16sdiz 3mo agoI guess this is related, but I knew too little to tell: Safari can't do MJPEG in <img>.
- tensegrist 3mo agooh i thought this was going to be a jpeg that loaded the highest-frequency data first and added the lower frequency data later
- stankondrat 3mo agoI made the Progressive Image Viewer Tool a few years ago. You can drop any image into it to simulate loading. https://stan-kondrat.github.io/progressive-image-viewer/ https://stan-kondrat.github.io/progressive-image-viewer/