4 ms·

… so… you’re talking about OpenAI or Apple?

by khalic 3mo ago

plufz 3mo ago
From what we know this far it’s quite easy to be on Apples side in this particular question, right?
- JKCalhoun 3mo ago
  Especially since Apple has no history of doing this—suggests this is on another level of theft. (I worked at Apple and am aware of little "theft" incidents that came and went. Obviously those little incidents never made the news cycle.)
  - nba456_ 3mo ago
    How could you have worked at Apple during the entire Samsung lawsuit and say Apple has no history of suing competitors over IP theft?
    - EPWN3D 3mo ago
      Because Apple didn't sue Samsung over IP theft. They sued them over copyright infringement.
      - bradyd 3mo ago
        It was actually patent infringement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._v._Samsung_Electronics_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._v._Samsung_Electron....
      - inigyou 3mo ago
        Copyright infringement is a sub-category of IP theft. Other types of IP theft include trademark infringement, and patent infringement.
        EPWN3D 3mo ago
        Sure, I guess. But I think people reading this thread are drawing a line between "Copying the publicly-visible IP" and "Inducing employees to walk out with trade secrets in hand." No one at Samsung was facing prison time. People at OpenAI very well could.
    - JKCalhoun 3mo ago
      You're right—I didn't mean to suggest they've never sued competitors. Some companies are just known to be litigious—I've never put Apple in that bucket. (And maybe I have blinders on. It's certainly fair to blame me for being biased.)
- khalic 3mo ago
  Yes it was more of a jest than a critique, the comment didn't explicitly say which one it was. In this case, it seems quite clear that Apple has a case.
JKCalhoun 3mo ago
Ha ha. Worked at Apple for over two decades—would not have stayed at a company I thought was evil for that long. A bully at times? I wouldn't argue with that.
- yomismoaqui 3mo ago
  A quick search: APP STORE, COMPETITION, AND MARKET CONTROL - U.S. Department of Justice antitrust lawsuit Accuses Apple of monopolizing smartphone markets and anticompetitive behavior. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-sues-apple-monopolizing-smartphone-markets - EU Commission DMA breach The European Commission found Apple in breach of the Digital Markets Act regarding steering rules. https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/news/commission-finds-apple-and-meta-breach-digital-markets-act - Epic Games injunction sanctions Court rules Apple defied App Store order regarding external payment links. https://apnews.com/article/69b16572d2b2c990f6b69d4bbad9b57b - EU €1.8B App Store fine Fined for abusive music-streaming rules and preventing cheaper alternative information. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_24_1161 IPHONE PERFORMANCE AND "BATTERYGATE" - Apple Will Finally Pay for Throttling iPhones (WIRED) Apple settled the throttling lawsuit for up to $500 million (without admitting guilt). https://www.wired.com/story/apple-batterygate-settlement-payments-finally-coming/ RIGHT TO REPAIR AND PARTS PAIRING - The End of Parts Pairing? Almost (iFixit) On how software component linking forces warnings and loses functionality. https://www.ifixit.com/News/100266/the-end-of-parts-pairing-almost - Self-Repair Programme Critique (Right to Repair Europe) Critiques serialization, remote authorization, and part restrictions. https://repair.eu/news/apples-self-repair-programme-is-not-the-right-to-repair-we-need/ - France is Fighting to Save Your iPhone from an Early Death (WIRED) Regarding France's probe into planned obsolescence and parts pairing. https://www.wired.com/story/right-to-repair-apple-france/ PRIVACY AND SURVEILLANCE - Apple to pay $95 million to settle Siri privacy lawsuit (Reuters) Lawsuit alleging accidental Siri recordings and sharing with third parties. https://www.reuters.com/legal/apple-pay-95-million-settle-siri-privacy-lawsuit-2025-01-02/ - Apple's CSAM On-Device Scanning Critiques (EFF) The Electronic Frontier Foundation's critique of Apple's plan to scan photos on-device (later dropped). https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/08/apples-plan-think-different-about-encryption-opens-backdoor-your-private-life LABOR CONDITIONS IN SUPPLY CHAINS - Apple Reveals Supply Chain, Details Conditions (Reuters) Early reporting on audit findings of child labor and work violations. https://www.reuters.com/article/world/uk/apple-reveals-supply-chain-details-conditions-idUSTRE80C1KV/ - Rights Group Says Apple Suppliers in China Broke Labor Laws (Reuters) Reports of excessive overtime and labor violations in Chinese factories. https://www.reuters.com/article/business/rights-group-says-apple-suppliers-in-china-breaking-labour-laws-idUSBRE85R0EF/ TAX PRACTICES - State aid: Ireland gave illegal tax benefits to Apple worth up to €13 billion (European Commission) The EC ruling that Ireland gave illegal tax benefits to Apple, later upheld. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_16_2923

… so… you’re talking about OpenAI or Apple?

by khalic 3mo ago

… so… you’re talking about OpenAI or Apple?

plufz 3mo ago

From what we know this far it’s quite easy to be on Apples side in this particular question, right?

JKCalhoun 3mo ago
Especially since Apple has no history of doing this—suggests this is on another level of theft. (I worked at Apple and am aware of little "theft" incidents that came and went. Obviously those little incidents never made the news cycle.)
- nba456_ 3mo ago
  How could you have worked at Apple during the entire Samsung lawsuit and say Apple has no history of suing competitors over IP theft?
  - EPWN3D 3mo ago
    Because Apple didn't sue Samsung over IP theft. They sued them over copyright infringement.
    - bradyd 3mo ago
      It was actually patent infringement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._v._Samsung_Electronics_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._v._Samsung_Electron....
    - inigyou 3mo ago
      Copyright infringement is a sub-category of IP theft. Other types of IP theft include trademark infringement, and patent infringement.
      - EPWN3D 3mo ago
        Sure, I guess. But I think people reading this thread are drawing a line between "Copying the publicly-visible IP" and "Inducing employees to walk out with trade secrets in hand." No one at Samsung was facing prison time. People at OpenAI very well could.
  - JKCalhoun 3mo ago
    You're right—I didn't mean to suggest they've never sued competitors. Some companies are just known to be litigious—I've never put Apple in that bucket. (And maybe I have blinders on. It's certainly fair to blame me for being biased.)
khalic 3mo ago
Yes it was more of a jest than a critique, the comment didn't explicitly say which one it was. In this case, it seems quite clear that Apple has a case.

JKCalhoun 3mo ago

Ha ha. Worked at Apple for over two decades—would not have stayed at a company I thought was evil for that long. A bully at times? I wouldn't argue with that.

yomismoaqui 3mo ago
A quick search: APP STORE, COMPETITION, AND MARKET CONTROL - U.S. Department of Justice antitrust lawsuit Accuses Apple of monopolizing smartphone markets and anticompetitive behavior. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-sues-apple-monopolizing-smartphone-markets - EU Commission DMA breach The European Commission found Apple in breach of the Digital Markets Act regarding steering rules. https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/news/commission-finds-apple-and-meta-breach-digital-markets-act - Epic Games injunction sanctions Court rules Apple defied App Store order regarding external payment links. https://apnews.com/article/69b16572d2b2c990f6b69d4bbad9b57b - EU €1.8B App Store fine Fined for abusive music-streaming rules and preventing cheaper alternative information. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_24_1161 IPHONE PERFORMANCE AND "BATTERYGATE" - Apple Will Finally Pay for Throttling iPhones (WIRED) Apple settled the throttling lawsuit for up to $500 million (without admitting guilt). https://www.wired.com/story/apple-batterygate-settlement-payments-finally-coming/ RIGHT TO REPAIR AND PARTS PAIRING - The End of Parts Pairing? Almost (iFixit) On how software component linking forces warnings and loses functionality. https://www.ifixit.com/News/100266/the-end-of-parts-pairing-almost - Self-Repair Programme Critique (Right to Repair Europe) Critiques serialization, remote authorization, and part restrictions. https://repair.eu/news/apples-self-repair-programme-is-not-the-right-to-repair-we-need/ - France is Fighting to Save Your iPhone from an Early Death (WIRED) Regarding France's probe into planned obsolescence and parts pairing. https://www.wired.com/story/right-to-repair-apple-france/ PRIVACY AND SURVEILLANCE - Apple to pay $95 million to settle Siri privacy lawsuit (Reuters) Lawsuit alleging accidental Siri recordings and sharing with third parties. https://www.reuters.com/legal/apple-pay-95-million-settle-siri-privacy-lawsuit-2025-01-02/ - Apple's CSAM On-Device Scanning Critiques (EFF) The Electronic Frontier Foundation's critique of Apple's plan to scan photos on-device (later dropped). https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/08/apples-plan-think-different-about-encryption-opens-backdoor-your-private-life LABOR CONDITIONS IN SUPPLY CHAINS - Apple Reveals Supply Chain, Details Conditions (Reuters) Early reporting on audit findings of child labor and work violations. https://www.reuters.com/article/world/uk/apple-reveals-supply-chain-details-conditions-idUSTRE80C1KV/ - Rights Group Says Apple Suppliers in China Broke Labor Laws (Reuters) Reports of excessive overtime and labor violations in Chinese factories. https://www.reuters.com/article/business/rights-group-says-apple-suppliers-in-china-breaking-labour-laws-idUSBRE85R0EF/ TAX PRACTICES - State aid: Ireland gave illegal tax benefits to Apple worth up to €13 billion (European Commission) The EC ruling that Ireland gave illegal tax benefits to Apple, later upheld. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_16_2923