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Like most of this stuff, it's obviously impressive technology compared to what existed a few years ago. But the end product has zero artistic value. It's a grey
by hbn 3mo ago
Like most of this stuff, it's obviously impressive technology compared to what existed a few years ago. But the end product has zero artistic value. It's a grey goo of the average of every concept picked up from the concept of the song.
A talented creative with a vision could make something more interesting and enjoyable in an afternoon with a $0 budget.
- onesandofgrain 3mo agoWe dont need music videos though. Music videos are absurd and meaningless.
- AIorNot 3mo agoAh man I love the music videos of the 90s Spike Jonze had so many creative ones
- Mashimo 3mo agoWhy are they absurd and meaningless? Can be art and creative, just like the music.
- onesandofgrain 3mo agoMusic videos take attention away from the actual art. It's purely a gimmick to make bad music sound better. ... and no, music videos are not art.
- brabel 3mo agoYour definition of art is not in agreement with any artist’s interpretation I’ve ever heard. It’s like saying a movie based on a book is not art , it just distracts from the book.
- onesandofgrain 3mo agoI don't care about being in agreement with "any artist's interpretation". And stop appealing to the masses argument, it's cringe. No, a movie based upon a book is the same art just told in a different way, but I'm not buying that rappers driving luxury cars while rapping and having women in stripper heels tells the same musical artistic story in a different way. Or some random story.
- flohofwoe 3mo ago> but I'm not buying that rappers driving luxury cars while rapping and having women in stripper heels tells the same musical artistic story in a different way Lol ok that's where you're coming from. Reducing music videos to gangster rap shite is basically the equivalent of "all movies suck because I've ever only seen Hollywood superhero movies".
- onesandofgrain 3mo agoyou really love the distraction economy huh
- galaxyLogic 3mo agoI think it's the same situation and direction with human dancers on every pop-music stage. They add nothing to the music so why are they there? It used to be that musicians focused on great playing and singers on great singing, but now every pop-star and also rap-star must have their dancers on stage. I personally don't get it but seems like many people like it more if there are more dancers.
- onesandofgrain 3mo agoExactly, they add nothing. It's a cringey gimmick. The music is the art.
- __alexs 3mo agoI'm sure some people said the same about ballet.
- onesandofgrain 3mo agoBallet isn't art, it's wasted potential.
- Mashimo 3mo ago> music videos are not art. Yes, they definitely are. I mean not all, but they can be. Just like cover photos on an LP or the music itself. It might not do anything to you, but it's definitely art that can compliment the video. Might make it worse, might make it better. Might change the feeling.
- jakemm 3mo agoI don't know if there is a hidden /s but I disagree with your general statement. Music Videos often enough expand the story the song tells. While "The Blaze - TERRITORY" is already a beautiful song to me, its music video[1] Always brings a tear to my eye. That said, music Videos, like many songs themselves, are not rarely meaningless and bland. I guess that is just the result of commercial music. [1] https://youtu.be/54fea7wuV6s https://youtu.be/54fea7wuV6s
- onesandofgrain 3mo agoThey do not, they add nothing. And if they do then the song is bad.
- flohofwoe 3mo ago[dead]
- johnvanommen 3mo agoThat was Morrissey's stance when he was in the Smiths. I really wish he hadn't been such a luddite, it would have been great if we had some Smiths music videos that were actually made in the 80s. (OK, we did get one, "Stop Me if You Think That You've Heard This One Before.")
- theshowforbirds 3mo ago[dead]
- bloqs 3mo agoMusic videos aren't absurd and meaningless, as in many instances they are of fantastic artistic merit on their own accord and are simply scored in reverse
- TheOtherHobbes 3mo agoThey're often a collection of meaningless visual cliches spliced together in an attempt to look meaningful, and always have been. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsgWUq0fdKk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsgWUq0fdKk
- onesandofgrain 3mo agoAgreed
- vintermann 3mo agoWe don't yet know the "load bearing" or "delve" or "not X. Not Y. Just..." Clichés of video AI - at least I don't know. But given it's instruction tuned, we can be confident they will be there, and that the breadth of what it can generate for a given prompt will have extremely low diversity compared to its training data.
- DanHulton 3mo agoOne of the big dead giveaways for AI videos is the sequence of slow pan shots without any sort of real action or focus. Once you start seeing it in a few of them, you'll start seeing it in _all_ of them. Just shot after shot of a slow pan of a scene with minimal action happening in only a few areas.
- karlkloss 3mo ago"It's a grey goo of the average of every concept picked up from the concept of the song." You just described 90% of todays music videos made by humans.
- arrrg 3mo agoEven the worst music videos I have seen aren’t as incoherent as this mess. This is actually mostly down to constraints: even if you suck you will suck in some coherent consistent way that will give your music videos more structure than this mess. Those videos are just nihilistic despair.
- xbmcuser 3mo agoA talented creative with a vision can now direct AI to build things that would have otherwise cost millions or been entirely impossible. I don’t understand the myopic view people have when it comes to this technology. Just three or four years ago, we saw the exact same skepticism with programming. People insisted it can't do this and it can't do that, but many of those things are possible today.
- zeofig 3mo agoIt remains godawful slop in every instance I've seen, no matter how expensive it would be to produce without AI.
- starshadowx2 3mo agoI think this new one made with Seedance 2.5 is actually not too bad. https://x.com/BytePlusGlobal/status/2077321849806234080 https://x.com/BytePlusGlobal/status/2077321849806234080
- lotsofpulp 3mo agoNeeds more cuts.
- marknutter 3mo agoI saw nothing wrong with the number of cuts, seems very in line with other commercials like this. I would not have been able to tell this was made by ai had I not known it going into it.
- lotsofpulp 3mo agoI don’t watch commercials to know what is typical, but I just have experience that video media with lots of cuts is generally low quality and a sign to turn it off.
- geraldmcboing 3mo ago
- mirsadm 3mo agoYes but they would have had to spend years training/practicing which apparently is not a thing we value anymore.
- scrollop 3mo agoAs much as I don't want jobs taken away by AI, a creative person with a vision that would usually required $1 million budget, could create such a video using AI by being very specific in what they require which would not be a " grey goo of the average of every concept " eg. "scene 32, same 2 characters from the previous scene, now dressed in the garb of Egyption middle kingdom high priests, though with cat faces, dancing on the back of an elephant that is running fast with blurred feet on the surface of a river with licks of water that burst from the water in time with the music that I gave you before, length of song for this clip 2:21 to 2:31" Your mind is your limit. AI is a tool. If you tell it "create me a music video for this song set in egypt" then it may turn out AI sloppy.
- spaqin 3mo agoArt isn't just the screenplay, or a prompt; it's the clash between reality and the intent (whether a location or practical set constraints), the individual skill of everyone involved, costume and prop department. And it may change during production. And effort. If it's easy, it's easily reproducible and not worth that much. And novelty, that's something current models aren't capable of. That's why Jarimoquai's Virtual Insanity video became popular. That's why practical effects are more impressive than CGI, even if they're jankier and hide behind clever camerawork.
- neonstatic 3mo ago> Art isn't just the screenplay, or a prompt; it's the clash between reality and the intent Okay, clanker
- f6v 3mo ago[flagged]
- spuz 3mo agoThe problem with this discussion is we are conflating artistic value with economic value. A music video can be valuable as art, but it can also be valuable as a tool for promotion or for generating revenue. If the goal is pure economic efficiency then an AI has the potential to create a music video more efficiently than a human. If the goal is to produce something that makes people feel some kind of emotion then AI will work against you. The same goes for code. I use AI to write code that I'm not precious about but if I want to feel proud of my work, you can be sure I'll write it by hand.
- f6v 3mo ago> It's a grey goo of the average of every concept picked up from the concept of the song. All right, but that's what an average entertainment product looks like. All these new TV shows have exactly the same look and feel about them. The same actors playing the same roles over and over again. People keep comparing AI to some kind of once in a lifetime genius instead of an average person in the field.
- kriro 3mo agoThis seems overly pessimistic to me. Of the recent shows I have watched, Andor contradicts it in my opinion. Might even be one of the best shows I have watched. Granted I rarely watch movies/TV shows these days so my random sample might just be lucky.
- 8note 3mo agoandor is without doubt, the exception that proves the rule and you know, was not renewed because it was so expensive to make andor is exceptional
- Jtarii 3mo agoNo one is denying that AI can generate worthless slop, just how most of what humans generate is worthless slop.
- wat10000 3mo agoGuess what, I don't like or watch those either.
- gpderetta 3mo ago"90% of everything is crap". Although I guess we should probably update it to "99% of everything is slop.
- calgoo 3mo agoI think these videos are a great visual representation of what happens to your codebase of you let the agent vibe code the entire thing by itself without review and guidance! It works... but once you actually start looking at the details there are so many small cases that need fixing. Now, if you had someone with experience in editing, and they worked as a team, human + agent, then most of the small issues would be picked up and fixed during development.
- nonethewiser 3mo ago>I think these videos are a great visual representation of what happens to your codebase of you let the agent vibe code the entire thing by itself without review and guidance! I think you are right if the codebase has no tests. Thats the thing about producing art. Its subjectively consumed. Is it good or bad? You can’t really verify that during generation. You largely can with code.
- nonethewiser 3mo ago>But the end product has zero artistic value It has more artistic value than most modern art.
- maxehmookau 3mo agoA lot of the replies to this are, predicably, disappointing. For what its worth, I entirely agree. AI is good at a lot of things, but it genuinely sucks at anything that requires real creativity. The human at the heart of a creative endeavor can't be replaced, and I hope that never changes.
- abc42 3mo agoI'm amazed how easily people dismiss this. They used less that an hour of wall clock time and max $50 to do this. How much would it take for me to create videos like this? I'm guessing 1-4 years calendar time practicing half an hour every day just to break my lack of talent. Immeasurable cost given how there's no way in hell I'm going to invest that kind of time for a skill I don't actually want to acquire. Somebody who's actually competent and talented is going to make some pretty amazing stuff cheaply with something like this, and the technology is nowhere near its peak yet.
- Cthulhu_ 3mo agoThat depends on your own standards to be honest. Here's a video from Meshuggah which is a camcorder recording of them emoting in a camper van - that's half an hour of work, a few hours of editing tops. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A_tSyJBsRQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A_tSyJBsRQ My point is, anyone can make a music video on any budget or level of talent. And camcorder silliness is more artistic and entertaining than AI generated stuff any day of the week.
- ThatMedicIsASpy 3mo agoI'm fine with AI music having AI videos. https://www.youtube.com/@DementedVinyl https://www.youtube.com/@DementedVinyl But I have never cared about a video when it comes to music.
- gilleain 3mo agoA good music track does not _need_ a video, but some videos definitely can enhance the music or are just amazing by themselves. 'Sabotage' by the Beastie Boys (Spike Jones), 'Hunter' by Bjork (Paul White), 'Praise You' by Fatboy Slim (also Spike Jones), ... er Billie Eilish 'When The Party's Over', Apex Twin's Windowlicker (Chris Cunningam). There are so many great music videos that are more than just the song. Of course, some are just the artist singing in front of a greenscreen, and that's fine I suppose. Still, they are fundamentally different to an excellent music video.
- 3mo ago
- basisword 3mo agoYou can find someone on Fiverr that’ll do a better job than this for $100. The concept will be completely different but it’ll be much better.
- jstummbillig 3mo ago> A talented creative with a vision could make something more interesting and enjoyable in an afternoon with a $0 budget. Only if you are really sloppy with your book keeping.
- smoe 3mo agoInterestingly, I enjoyed early GenAI videos much more. All those bizarre, fever dream like experiences from the lack of consistency between frames, where things would morph or pop in and out of existence. They had a certain flair and something truly distinct to the medium. Now it is mostly just this uncanny valley of bringing stock photography to life. Obviously, there will be some who use AI to great artistic effect, but I'm really worried about the discoverability of actually interesting stuff, whether it uses AI or not. Everything will be swamped by the automated goo of mediocrity that will vastly dominate in volume. My perhaps naive hope is that this pushes people back toward offline and local communities, as well as toward more physical art instead of even more consumerism.
- mapt 3mo agoHave you been following Gossip Goblin?
- smoe 3mo agoGossip Goblin, I think, is a great example of what artists with actual working experience can do with AI. That said, for my taste, his works, while visually beautiful and interesting, feel a bit collage-y and lacking in emotion. The over the top visuals distract from a lack of depth. Sound design is very meh. As I said, I think there are and will be many artists using AI in great and novel ways. It’s just that so far I have seen many more grifters than artists. I’m not yet convinced that AI will bring us the next Masamune Shirow, Katsuhiro Otomo, Moebius, H.R. Giger, or Syd Mead in terms of lasting stylistic impact on the genre without them having to learn some actual skills, rather than just being an “idea person"
- Spacecosmonaut 3mo agoI wonder how much of the sloppy feeling is created by the knowledge that its AI generated.
- tejohnso 3mo agoSame. I think there's a lot of AI prejudice influencing people's opinions on AI output. I wonder what would happen in a study where some art is critiqued by one group that is informed that the art was created by AI and another group that is uninformed.
- userbinator 3mo agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48137126 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48137126
- DrammBA 3mo agoI wish I could see it with fresh eyes without the accumulated knowledge I have of how AI looks. What does this video look like to a person clueless about AI? What do they think of the constant repetition of slow panning shows where barely anything is happening, or a guy spinning on the floor but his head morphs into his feet and his feet morph into his head, or a person kissing a mirror that isn't quite mirroring the person and it slowly becomes a person kissing what appears to be their identical twin standing on the other side a floating empty mirror frame?
- tejohnso 3mo ago> A talented creative with a vision could make something more interesting and enjoyable in an afternoon I should hope that a "talented" creative "with a vision" could, do better, yes. But now a talentless hack devoid of vision can do something half decent too. And if you don't think this is half decent, just replace "now" with "soon".
- DaiPlusPlus 3mo agoYes, and it has me genuinely concerned.
- contagiousflow 3mo agoAnd do you think that makes the world a better place?
- raxxorraxor 3mo agoWe all know that tasteless junk media would never be successful, this is why you only find high quality media on the internet and only high quality media gets popular in the mainstream. That sounds right, right? Seriously, the nudge for artistic value can be made, although I would very much doubt a creative human making a video for an established song with a clear theme would do better in creativity. Perhaps the one advantage a human would have is to reject the expectations for such a tasks, which the AI is trained to fulfil. The problem isn't that such content lacks artistic value. It is that it is enough for the broadest audience. The average consumer is basically a vacuum cleaner.
- intrikate 3mo ago
- etempleton 3mo agoCompletely agree. Impressive as a tech demo, but that is pretty much where it ends. Give a talented kid an iPhone and they could create something significantly better and more interesting. And this is the bear case on AI. Sure, if the quality of the output is largely meaningless or binary, e.g. it works or it doesn’t, then AI is useful, but as soon as subjective judgement or taste is involved it is useless.
- theplumber 3mo agoThe hooks are more important than the quality. The whole short video stuff is designed to be filled by AI slop. Even the long video format (I.e movies) are in big trouble due AI because the cheap/junk stuff they produce (I.e Netflix style ) will be easily produced with AI. Not to mention that people will have the option to no longer subject themselves to the lecturing of various political crap that is being delivered through the big media producers(I.e Netflix)
- websap 3mo agoThe scary thing is that this is the worst this technology will ever be. The media industry is cooked. Get ready for $100 movie theater tickets, because the cost actual creative work is going to go sky high in the next few years
- bmau5 3mo agoWouldn't it track that AI creative work would plummet ticket costs rather than increase them?
- sigsop7 3mo ago> Get ready for $100 movie theater tickets, because the cost actual creative work is going to go sky high in the next few years I suspect movie theaters will just die. Even nowadays, on the occasion I go to see a movie, I damn near gave the entire theater to myself. Given the output from Hollywood is already abysmal, I can’t imagine paying $100 for it even if the alternative is AI slop.
- jvorick 3mo agoMovie tickets won't skyrocket. The price to make content will only go down. Best case, creators will be able to make better movies w/ a fraction of the $$ (faster iteration on concepts, cheaper CGI, no need to hire extras, etc). Worst case, movie makers don't find AI useful and ticket prices stay the same.
- userbinator 3mo agocheaper CGI Worth noting that the weird artifacts and morphing transitions that seem to be "free" and perhaps too abundant in AI videos would've probably been impossible or extremely difficult to create otherwise.
- zahlman 3mo agoThe industry may be cooked, but the economic effect you predict is entirely illogical. Things don't get more expensive simply because other things get cheaper.
- MPSimmons 3mo agoYeah, a $100 AI music video is materially worse than not having a music video.
- hliyan 3mo agoI remember an Apple ad from a while back where a hydraulic press crushes a bunch of musical instruments. Your "grey goo of the average" analogy resonates for me because these videos feel like what would ooze out if we take all relevant videos that were produced by humans and then crush them under a generative press.
- throwawaytea 3mo agoIt was made with zero artistic intent, so it has zero value. If you sat down a talented art student that cared, they could prompt AI to make something artistically interesting to watch.
- sporkland 3mo agoPeople keep referring to the output of neural nets as the "average of the training data" but imho the deep value in neural nets and the interesting philosophical part is they are massive conditional probability engines whose results can change based on the variables you feed in.
- nekooooo 3mo agoremembering that line from the Portlandia sketch where the PTA is discussing the music their kids are listening to with the subtext that it's not indie enough : "It is pap. It is pabulum." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdEPgB2yizw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdEPgB2yizw