5 ms·

It very much depends on life situation. For instance, if you are less than 50 and on private health care through your employer than you're very likely going to

by petcat 3mo ago

It very much depends on life situation. For instance, if you are less than 50 and on private health care through your employer than you're very likely going to have better healthcare access than anywhere in Europe and Canada. I am able to see my PCP and dentist within a week if I want. I read a statistic that in Europe and Canada you have to make those kinds of routine appointments months in advance. Also, my father-in-law went from consultation to a full knee replacement surgery within 3 weeks. Again, that kind of thing takes 8 months or a year minimum anywhere in Europe or Canada.

gadders 3mo ago
A lot of people in the UK (with professional jobs) top up their state health provision with private medical insurance provided by their employer. This isn't a bad mix.
- mlrtime 3mo ago
  There are some companies that give private health care to all it's UK employees. It's the best of both worlds.
  - gadders 3mo ago
    Yes, agree. I only really know about office work. If people are giving it to their blue collar employees as well, that's great.
Arnt 3mo ago
You read that? I can get either in a day or two if I need it, they want much longer-term planning though. For a vaccination I'll call several weeks in advance. If I want an appointment before/after work I'll call well in advance, if I want something tomorrow they may say "11:30, take it out leave it", which isn't great for my work. Don't trust whoever wrote what you read there. FUD scaremongers.
- microtonal 3mo ago
  For vaccinations like the flu shot [1], I call them or send them an e-mail and then I can usually come by any morning I like without an appointment (they'll just administer the shot between appointments, since it does not take much time). When we lived in Germany, we got TBE shots (area with a lot of ticks that carried it). IIRC we could also get an appointment in a few days. (Though I think with vaccinations it's similar in the US.) [1] Not eligible yet, so I pay 25 Euro to get one every year. Worth it for not getting the flu.
  - Arnt 3mo ago
    Weird what people will believe. In this case GP probably knows that e.g. Italy has a life expectancy well above that of the US. Still, when he read that well-off people in the US have much better health coverage and it takes months to see a doctor in Italy, he believed it. How is it even possible to believe such a thing when you know the numbers?
basilikum 3mo ago
Healthcare varies widely in Europe. It's not one country. But the "on private health care" part is they key. It's really not that different in lots of parts of Europe with the difference that people who do not have that still have access to the healthcare system without going bankrupt, albeit slower.
potatototoo99 3mo ago
You are misinformed. A lot of people in Europe and Canada also have private insurance, sometimes paid by the employer as well, and with that the wait times are usually very short. Going through the public healthcare system you may indeed wait months for non urgent matters.
himata4113 3mo ago
This is wrong, you can get same-day appointments for anything time-critical including dental. What takes a long time to schedule is mostly free preventitive care. There is also the same private healthcare that americans enjoy. You have the option of spending $50 to $100 to go to a private clinic and get same-day admission. In the US services like that cost nearly 10 times the price due to the whole insurance bullshit. I got free same-day heart check-up and $80 paid same-week heart monitoring check-up. There are horror stories and footage of the UK NHS, but that's mostly just london and in reality pretty much every city that large suffers from that.
microtonal 3mo ago
For instance, if you are less than 50 and on private health care through your employer than you're very likely going to have better healthcare access than anywhere in Europe and Canada. Your healthcare insurance being dependent on your employer seems like hell though. They will always have enormous bargaining power over you and I think it also leads to chilling effect, when your health is literally dependent on your job, you will think twice to go on strike, unionize, or freely express your thought, especially when combined with at-will employment. Secondly, I would also debate the better health care. I recently had two health scares in my direct family (one time cancer, one time another tumor) and in both cases care was quick and excellent. Of course, there is quite a lot of variance between countries. We lived in Germany for a while and I was less impressed by health care there (though it's probably still much better and definitely cheaper than the average health care in the US). Again, that kind of thing takes 8 months or a year minimum anywhere in Europe or Canada. Sorry, this is totally false. I checked the local established norm (49 days) and stats (generally between 30 and 150 days, depending on the hospital, which you can choose). And this doesn't depend on private insurance, because it does not exist in the county I live. I am able to see my PCP and dentist within a week if I want. I read a statistic that in Europe and Canada you have to make those kinds of routine appointments months in advance. I am able to see my general practitioner generally the same or next day and waiting time at the GP is typically less than 10 minutes. I can also visit my dentist the same day in the case of an emergency. It's the same in many other European countries. I got kidney stones when we were on vacation in Denmark (I don't recommend). I visited a doctor twice, both times I called and I could immediately come to their practice and they ran tests, etc. I don't think we even got a bill for either visits. I only paid something like 10 euros at the pharmacist for a good stock of painkillers.
- m4rtink 3mo ago
  Isn't employer dependent healthcare basically slavery, blackmail or both ?
  - tempfile 3mo ago
    Only to the extent that all waged employment is basically slavery (since healthcare is even less critical than food, water and housing).
iamben 3mo ago
UK: A dentist will see you for an emergency appointment pretty quickly. I can usually get a routine appointment within a few weeks, but if it's a routine check-up I don't mind scheduling it for a few weeks/a month out. If I'm going private I can usually get a routine appointment same week. For more urgent enquiries with an NHS doctor I can usually get a phonecall next day, and they'll ask me to come in if it's serious. For routine/non-urgent stuff you might wait a week or two. Obviously this is going to vary depending on where you live, and the NHS is not without it's problems... But it's essentially free and a wonderful thing.
- rjh29 3mo ago
  Finding an NHS dentist is nearly impossible in most of the UK, though.
  - throw5 3mo ago
    In the UK, most people simply get Bupa dental insurance. A basic plan costs like 25 pounds per month. Affordable I'd say. Many people spend more than that on beer and public transport. I know that does not help someone who has become homeless or lost their job and cannot afford the 25 pounds a month (300 pounds a year). That is why I say it is important for people who are employed to get a Bupa insurance plan. Most people do that anyway. This reduces the burden on the NHS Dental and help provide free dental treatment for people who genuinely need it. For non-dental medical issues, I think the NHS is pretty good. When I lived in UK, I always got same-day appointments for routine check-ups and same-week appointments for more complex investigations.
    - robtherobber 3mo ago
      Whilst I understand that reasoning, I disagree with it. Private insurance should not be necessary to begin with, and if it must exist for whatever rational reason, the insurance should be public as well. Anything that has to do with healthcare (not talking about optional cosmetic surgery, of course) should be handled by / via public healthcare services. Furthermore, I would say that it's wrong to look at the situation in terms of "reducing the burden on the NHS Dental", since that is literally what's there for. If people don't opt for cosmetic surgery, then it's a healthcare issue and we created this institution/branch for this very purpose. Otherwise we can easily end up speaking in terms of how much of a burden being alive is, and how eating (regular) food and drinking water are poor economic decisions, a topsy-turvy way of looking at the very reason to have an 'economy'.
Broken_Hippo 3mo ago
This just isn't true and really glosses over the downsides of the US healthcare system. Employer health plans are only good as long as you pay - if they are good. Lots aren't and they require you to pay so much upfront. Waiting time for specialists and surgeries depend on the area you live in: Not common to wait months for a specialist in the US. You won't get seen if you can't pay for the doctor upfront and medicines are expensive. I moved from the US (Indiana) to Norway. I've never had an issue seeing a doctor or dentist if I'm sick or in pain since I've been here. I can plan routine things in advance, but I don't need to plan months in advance. I'm just not getting in the same day because they save those times for folks that are sick and need seen sooner. I'll never have a bill if I'm hospitalized. Doctors tend to offer less invasive treatments first - they would have tried to avoid a knee replacement. And if the wait was long (which again, really isn't different from the states, depending on where you are and if you have money enough), the safety net helps out. Reduced work hours and paid time off work and stuff like that. The emergency room sends folks home with medicine instead of expecting you to go to the pharmacy afterwards! ER waiting times aren't longer and honestly, I can call ahead and suffer at home instead of in a waiting room if it isn't actually an emergency, but need urgent care. My partner was seen immediately when he cut off part of his finger, I was seen immediately when I had severe pain, but you'll wait longer for an uncomplicated broken bone and things like that. And this is all relying on the public system - People can get shorter waiting times if they use the private system.
moi2388 3mo ago
> I am able to see my PCP and dentist within a week if I want I am in the EU and I can do that too?
bwb 3mo ago
I live in Europe, I can make an appointment with my dentist tomorrow. I was sick 3 weeks ago and just went on video conference at 6am with my PCP. Just to help out there :) This has been the case in every country I've lived in within Europe (3 and counting). And a mix of rural (50,000 town) and big urban areas.
cyclopeanutopia 3mo ago
I'm in Poland, and with the private insurance through my employer I can get both the same day - a week sounds really bad.
throw5 3mo ago
> I am able to see my PCP and dentist within a week if I want. I read a statistic that in Europe and Canada you have to make those kinds of routine appointments months in advance. Can you share a reference for that statistics? FWIW, I live in Europe and I always got dentist appointments within a week. For a severe issue (pain involved), I got appointment on the same day.
orthogonal_cube 3mo ago
> I am able to see my PCP and dentist within a week if I want. This is very much location- and provider-dependent, regardless of rural or urban setting. You also have to factor in that some doctors do not work at a single clinic but may schedule their week to spend certain days at one facility and the rest at others (ex. Monday and Thursday at Facility A, Tuesday and Wednesday at Facility B, Fridays off) which can limit the ability to see them in the same week especially if the facilities are not owned by the same organization. Healthcare access and quality aren’t consistent. Some states or areas in the same state will have better providers than others. Some health insurances will cover things without question and others may fight against you on covering things. I recently had knee surgery and hit my deductible due to the procedure but insurance billed me for full price on part of the it because they deemed it to be “experimental and unnecessary.” There was some back-and-forth between the surgeon’s office, my insurance, and myself to understand why only a part of it wasn’t covered. This was an additional $1,200 that eventually I had to pay for; even after paying $1,100 up front because of my high-deductible health plan. I’m financially stable enough to cover it without it destroying my savings but this kind of surprise isn’t uncommon for US citizens even with recent laws trying to make costs more predictable.
Arodex 3mo ago
It is impressive how misinformed you are about the reality of health care in Europe. It is almost as if you were being lied to in order to make you accept being mistreated.
mcphage 3mo ago
> if you are less than 50 and on private health care through your employer than you're very likely going to have better healthcare access than anywhere in Europe and Canada Even if it's true now, I wonder for how long—insurance is getting worse and worse every year.
_DeadFred_ 3mo ago
I had skin cancer. I talked to my doctor and to the local skin care clinic. Because of my deductible, the final cost for removal would be the same with or without insurance. If I bypassed the American insurance hellscape, I could have the removal surgery that week. If I used my insurance, went to all the specialist referrals they wanted, etc it was minimum 3 months before I could get the surgery because of wait times for appointments to have confirmation what the skin care clinic tested/told me same day.
Hugsbox 3mo ago
I'm in Canada. Earlier today I called the doctor's office to make an appointment for my wife. She'll be in tomorrow. Last month had to get my son in to get checked out, turned out he just had a nasty cold, but they were able to get him in day-of. Mind you, that's not the emergency room, that's my _family doctor_. Two weeks ago my mother had kidney stones, went to the ER. Had a stent put in, sent along her merry way in I want to say 4 hours? When my sciatica flared up several months ago, I was in the ER for several hours just because there were much more severe cases ahead of me, which makes perfect sense. I got xrayed that day, bloodwork, among other shit. I could go on and on, but these cases aren't outliers for us, they're the norm.
insane_dreamer 3mo ago
I regularly see this making the rounds that "you can see your doctor in the US right away whereas in <socialist healthcare country of your choice> you have to wait months!" I call BS. I have a great healthcare plan and appointments with my PCP are weeks out if at all; I was lucky to find some other random PCP who was available for a Telehealth consult only. Our kid has a rare disability that requires lots of different doctors, and we have to book literally months in advance for consults. My (now retired) parents live in Ireland and get better healthcare than we do in the US.
fatbird 3mo ago
Availability and wait times vary widely by location. I'm on Vancouver Island in a city of 100,000 and can see my PCP and dentist within a week if I want (though for a while, getting a cleaning required making an appointment months out). I've been to the general hospital for three separate procedures in the last six months, each time getting scheduled within two weeks (and each time getting a marvel of efficiency, arriving in the morning and out by lunchtime). When my brother was in Columbus, OH, (pop. 1.5 million) he got a referral to a neurologist for a pinched nerve in his neck and was scheduled 9 months out. The situations are far too varied for easy generalizations.

by petcat 3mo ago

gadders 3mo ago

A lot of people in the UK (with professional jobs) top up their state health provision with private medical insurance provided by their employer. This isn't a bad mix.

mlrtime 3mo ago
There are some companies that give private health care to all it's UK employees. It's the best of both worlds.
- gadders 3mo ago
  Yes, agree. I only really know about office work. If people are giving it to their blue collar employees as well, that's great.

Arnt 3mo ago

You read that? I can get either in a day or two if I need it, they want much longer-term planning though. For a vaccination I'll call several weeks in advance. If I want an appointment before/after work I'll call well in advance, if I want something tomorrow they may say "11:30, take it out leave it", which isn't great for my work. Don't trust whoever wrote what you read there. FUD scaremongers.

microtonal 3mo ago
For vaccinations like the flu shot [1], I call them or send them an e-mail and then I can usually come by any morning I like without an appointment (they'll just administer the shot between appointments, since it does not take much time). When we lived in Germany, we got TBE shots (area with a lot of ticks that carried it). IIRC we could also get an appointment in a few days. (Though I think with vaccinations it's similar in the US.) [1] Not eligible yet, so I pay 25 Euro to get one every year. Worth it for not getting the flu.
- Arnt 3mo ago
  Weird what people will believe. In this case GP probably knows that e.g. Italy has a life expectancy well above that of the US. Still, when he read that well-off people in the US have much better health coverage and it takes months to see a doctor in Italy, he believed it. How is it even possible to believe such a thing when you know the numbers?

basilikum 3mo ago

Healthcare varies widely in Europe. It's not one country. But the "on private health care" part is they key. It's really not that different in lots of parts of Europe with the difference that people who do not have that still have access to the healthcare system without going bankrupt, albeit slower.

potatototoo99 3mo ago

You are misinformed. A lot of people in Europe and Canada also have private insurance, sometimes paid by the employer as well, and with that the wait times are usually very short. Going through the public healthcare system you may indeed wait months for non urgent matters.

himata4113 3mo ago

This is wrong, you can get same-day appointments for anything time-critical including dental. What takes a long time to schedule is mostly free preventitive care. There is also the same private healthcare that americans enjoy. You have the option of spending $50 to $100 to go to a private clinic and get same-day admission. In the US services like that cost nearly 10 times the price due to the whole insurance bullshit. I got free same-day heart check-up and $80 paid same-week heart monitoring check-up. There are horror stories and footage of the UK NHS, but that's mostly just london and in reality pretty much every city that large suffers from that.

microtonal 3mo ago

For instance, if you are less than 50 and on private health care through your employer than you're very likely going to have better healthcare access than anywhere in Europe and Canada. Your healthcare insurance being dependent on your employer seems like hell though. They will always have enormous bargaining power over you and I think it also leads to chilling effect, when your health is literally dependent on your job, you will think twice to go on strike, unionize, or freely express your thought, especially when combined with at-will employment. Secondly, I would also debate the better health care. I recently had two health scares in my direct family (one time cancer, one time another tumor) and in both cases care was quick and excellent. Of course, there is quite a lot of variance between countries. We lived in Germany for a while and I was less impressed by health care there (though it's probably still much better and definitely cheaper than the average health care in the US). Again, that kind of thing takes 8 months or a year minimum anywhere in Europe or Canada. Sorry, this is totally false. I checked the local established norm (49 days) and stats (generally between 30 and 150 days, depending on the hospital, which you can choose). And this doesn't depend on private insurance, because it does not exist in the county I live. I am able to see my PCP and dentist within a week if I want. I read a statistic that in Europe and Canada you have to make those kinds of routine appointments months in advance. I am able to see my general practitioner generally the same or next day and waiting time at the GP is typically less than 10 minutes. I can also visit my dentist the same day in the case of an emergency. It's the same in many other European countries. I got kidney stones when we were on vacation in Denmark (I don't recommend). I visited a doctor twice, both times I called and I could immediately come to their practice and they ran tests, etc. I don't think we even got a bill for either visits. I only paid something like 10 euros at the pharmacist for a good stock of painkillers.

m4rtink 3mo ago
Isn't employer dependent healthcare basically slavery, blackmail or both ?
- tempfile 3mo ago
  Only to the extent that all waged employment is basically slavery (since healthcare is even less critical than food, water and housing).

iamben 3mo ago

UK: A dentist will see you for an emergency appointment pretty quickly. I can usually get a routine appointment within a few weeks, but if it's a routine check-up I don't mind scheduling it for a few weeks/a month out. If I'm going private I can usually get a routine appointment same week. For more urgent enquiries with an NHS doctor I can usually get a phonecall next day, and they'll ask me to come in if it's serious. For routine/non-urgent stuff you might wait a week or two. Obviously this is going to vary depending on where you live, and the NHS is not without it's problems... But it's essentially free and a wonderful thing.

rjh29 3mo ago
Finding an NHS dentist is nearly impossible in most of the UK, though.
- throw5 3mo ago
  In the UK, most people simply get Bupa dental insurance. A basic plan costs like 25 pounds per month. Affordable I'd say. Many people spend more than that on beer and public transport. I know that does not help someone who has become homeless or lost their job and cannot afford the 25 pounds a month (300 pounds a year). That is why I say it is important for people who are employed to get a Bupa insurance plan. Most people do that anyway. This reduces the burden on the NHS Dental and help provide free dental treatment for people who genuinely need it. For non-dental medical issues, I think the NHS is pretty good. When I lived in UK, I always got same-day appointments for routine check-ups and same-week appointments for more complex investigations.
  - robtherobber 3mo ago
    Whilst I understand that reasoning, I disagree with it. Private insurance should not be necessary to begin with, and if it must exist for whatever rational reason, the insurance should be public as well. Anything that has to do with healthcare (not talking about optional cosmetic surgery, of course) should be handled by / via public healthcare services. Furthermore, I would say that it's wrong to look at the situation in terms of "reducing the burden on the NHS Dental", since that is literally what's there for. If people don't opt for cosmetic surgery, then it's a healthcare issue and we created this institution/branch for this very purpose. Otherwise we can easily end up speaking in terms of how much of a burden being alive is, and how eating (regular) food and drinking water are poor economic decisions, a topsy-turvy way of looking at the very reason to have an 'economy'.

Broken_Hippo 3mo ago

This just isn't true and really glosses over the downsides of the US healthcare system. Employer health plans are only good as long as you pay - if they are good. Lots aren't and they require you to pay so much upfront. Waiting time for specialists and surgeries depend on the area you live in: Not common to wait months for a specialist in the US. You won't get seen if you can't pay for the doctor upfront and medicines are expensive. I moved from the US (Indiana) to Norway. I've never had an issue seeing a doctor or dentist if I'm sick or in pain since I've been here. I can plan routine things in advance, but I don't need to plan months in advance. I'm just not getting in the same day because they save those times for folks that are sick and need seen sooner. I'll never have a bill if I'm hospitalized. Doctors tend to offer less invasive treatments first - they would have tried to avoid a knee replacement. And if the wait was long (which again, really isn't different from the states, depending on where you are and if you have money enough), the safety net helps out. Reduced work hours and paid time off work and stuff like that. The emergency room sends folks home with medicine instead of expecting you to go to the pharmacy afterwards! ER waiting times aren't longer and honestly, I can call ahead and suffer at home instead of in a waiting room if it isn't actually an emergency, but need urgent care. My partner was seen immediately when he cut off part of his finger, I was seen immediately when I had severe pain, but you'll wait longer for an uncomplicated broken bone and things like that. And this is all relying on the public system - People can get shorter waiting times if they use the private system.

moi2388 3mo ago

> I am able to see my PCP and dentist within a week if I want I am in the EU and I can do that too?

bwb 3mo ago

I live in Europe, I can make an appointment with my dentist tomorrow. I was sick 3 weeks ago and just went on video conference at 6am with my PCP. Just to help out there :) This has been the case in every country I've lived in within Europe (3 and counting). And a mix of rural (50,000 town) and big urban areas.

cyclopeanutopia 3mo ago

I'm in Poland, and with the private insurance through my employer I can get both the same day - a week sounds really bad.

throw5 3mo ago

> I am able to see my PCP and dentist within a week if I want. I read a statistic that in Europe and Canada you have to make those kinds of routine appointments months in advance. Can you share a reference for that statistics? FWIW, I live in Europe and I always got dentist appointments within a week. For a severe issue (pain involved), I got appointment on the same day.

orthogonal_cube 3mo ago

> I am able to see my PCP and dentist within a week if I want. This is very much location- and provider-dependent, regardless of rural or urban setting. You also have to factor in that some doctors do not work at a single clinic but may schedule their week to spend certain days at one facility and the rest at others (ex. Monday and Thursday at Facility A, Tuesday and Wednesday at Facility B, Fridays off) which can limit the ability to see them in the same week especially if the facilities are not owned by the same organization. Healthcare access and quality aren’t consistent. Some states or areas in the same state will have better providers than others. Some health insurances will cover things without question and others may fight against you on covering things. I recently had knee surgery and hit my deductible due to the procedure but insurance billed me for full price on part of the it because they deemed it to be “experimental and unnecessary.” There was some back-and-forth between the surgeon’s office, my insurance, and myself to understand why only a part of it wasn’t covered. This was an additional $1,200 that eventually I had to pay for; even after paying $1,100 up front because of my high-deductible health plan. I’m financially stable enough to cover it without it destroying my savings but this kind of surprise isn’t uncommon for US citizens even with recent laws trying to make costs more predictable.

Arodex 3mo ago

It is impressive how misinformed you are about the reality of health care in Europe. It is almost as if you were being lied to in order to make you accept being mistreated.

mcphage 3mo ago

> if you are less than 50 and on private health care through your employer than you're very likely going to have better healthcare access than anywhere in Europe and Canada Even if it's true now, I wonder for how long—insurance is getting worse and worse every year.

_DeadFred_ 3mo ago

I had skin cancer. I talked to my doctor and to the local skin care clinic. Because of my deductible, the final cost for removal would be the same with or without insurance. If I bypassed the American insurance hellscape, I could have the removal surgery that week. If I used my insurance, went to all the specialist referrals they wanted, etc it was minimum 3 months before I could get the surgery because of wait times for appointments to have confirmation what the skin care clinic tested/told me same day.

Hugsbox 3mo ago

I'm in Canada. Earlier today I called the doctor's office to make an appointment for my wife. She'll be in tomorrow. Last month had to get my son in to get checked out, turned out he just had a nasty cold, but they were able to get him in day-of. Mind you, that's not the emergency room, that's my _family doctor_. Two weeks ago my mother had kidney stones, went to the ER. Had a stent put in, sent along her merry way in I want to say 4 hours? When my sciatica flared up several months ago, I was in the ER for several hours just because there were much more severe cases ahead of me, which makes perfect sense. I got xrayed that day, bloodwork, among other shit. I could go on and on, but these cases aren't outliers for us, they're the norm.

insane_dreamer 3mo ago

I regularly see this making the rounds that "you can see your doctor in the US right away whereas in <socialist healthcare country of your choice> you have to wait months!" I call BS. I have a great healthcare plan and appointments with my PCP are weeks out if at all; I was lucky to find some other random PCP who was available for a Telehealth consult only. Our kid has a rare disability that requires lots of different doctors, and we have to book literally months in advance for consults. My (now retired) parents live in Ireland and get better healthcare than we do in the US.

fatbird 3mo ago

Availability and wait times vary widely by location. I'm on Vancouver Island in a city of 100,000 and can see my PCP and dentist within a week if I want (though for a while, getting a cleaning required making an appointment months out). I've been to the general hospital for three separate procedures in the last six months, each time getting scheduled within two weeks (and each time getting a marvel of efficiency, arriving in the morning and out by lunchtime). When my brother was in Columbus, OH, (pop. 1.5 million) he got a referral to a neurologist for a pinched nerve in his neck and was scheduled 9 months out. The situations are far too varied for easy generalizations.