3 ms·

Paypal is quite popular in Germany but with Wero that popularity will decrease significantly. I expect that all around the Europe.

by mertbio 2mo ago

solarkraft 2mo ago
I have not tried Wero, but I have tried the german predecessor (paydirekt/giropay). It was ... not much less smooth than PayPal. But I’ve only ever seen a single vendor offering it. 0 for Wero so far.
- LelouBil 2mo ago
  I don't think vendors can offer Wero yet. I think it's part of the merger with other European companies.
  - Semaphor 2mo ago
    That is what keeps confusing me when people hype wero. It essentially (I think some limited trials?) doesn't exist for B2C, and sending money to friends is a very minor use case. So once it has really broad support and can be used as merchant, is when it'll maybe become interesting.
    - LelouBil 2mo ago
      Well it's a nice thing to be able to send money across european countries only with a phone number even if it's only among consumers for now. But it's been confirmed they are merging with companies that are already B2C in their own countries to bring a european B2C system
- ahoef 2mo ago
  Wero is essentially iDeal. iDeal is great.
  - r1ch 2mo ago
    Great for merchants, not so much for consumers. Once the merchant has your money it's very difficult to get it back if things go wrong.
    - omnimus 2mo ago
      What is the alternative? I am not sure i can get my money back once they leave the card.
    - hocuspocus 2mo ago
      Which is pretty much the case with Visa and MC too. There's little card payment fraud in Europe thanks to mandated strong authentication, and very low transaction fees as interchange is capped by the EU; card issuers don't initiate chargebacks so easily.
      - SkiFire13 2mo ago
        > There's little card payment fraud You're confusing fraud as in unauthorized payments with fraud as in you not receiving what you paid for. The latter is not prevented by 3DS in any way.
        hocuspocus 2mo ago
        No I'm not. Ask anyone who tried to dispute a purchase that happened within the EEA, whether online with SCA or card present with PIN, card issuers often tell you to deal with the merchant directly. The interchange cap has significantly reduced revenue made on card payments, they have an incentive to avoid unnecessary manual work.
  - whazor 2mo ago
    It is not. Wero has charge back support and therefor higher fees. There is quite some interest in Pay by Bank via PSD2 APIs. This is much more similar to iDeal and can work for the entire EU.
- fallingbananna 2mo ago
  In most countries, Wero is still in incubating stage. i.e., banks anouncing that in the next 3 years they will support it. Of course it's not widely used by vendors when it's still in development. I am hopeful that it will take off to some degree in the nearest 5 years though.
juujian 2mo ago
I don't know if popular is quite the right word. It certainly is widely used though...
janpio 2mo ago
I like your optimism.
okanat 2mo ago
Paying with Paypal is as easy as logging in. With Wero/iDeal you always need a phone or a code. People trust PayPal more too.
- Sayrus 2mo ago
  Wero has a for merchant/commerce part that integrates with PSPs. For instance Adyen: https://www.adyen.com/knowledge-hub/wero https://www.adyen.com/knowledge-hub/wero But we aren't there yet.
  - okanat 2mo ago
    I don't get why you pointed out that, to be honest. I'm not a merchant. I am a consumer. As a consumer I would like to avoid Master Card / Visa as much as possible and also giving numbers out as much as possible. Paypal allows that and I don't need to use my phone to approve payments. Moreover payment systems that prioritize the needs of merchants usually are horrible for consumers. If Wero becomes such a platform, I will avoid it.
    - Sayrus 2mo ago
      I misunderstood your initial point about logging-in. On PayPal logging in requires my phone, even with hardware 2FA because sometimes it decides my new IP/Browser/luck isn't trusted enough so it needs to send me a SMS/WhatsApp message so it didn't even register with me that you would be talking about taking out your phone as an additional friction. I see that now, in which case: you're completely right. WeRo requires a phone and one that uses either Google Play Store or Apple App Store and worse, depending on your bank that requires strong Play Integrity. In term of implementation, WeRo looks more like a response to mobile payments like WhatApp, WeChat, Alipay, ... than a response a provider like PayPal. However, I haven't seen anything that'd limit them from expending support if they wished to. > and also giving numbers out as much as possible In Person-to-Person, you don't have to share your number. You can use QRCode (Direct SEPA). I'm not entirely sure of the email implementation, but maybe these do not share the phone number either (Edit: seeing https://support.wero-wallet.eu/hc/en-us/articles/25599201237009-Do-I-have-to-link-a-phone-number-or-e-mail-address-to-use-Wero https://support.wero-wallet.eu/hc/en-us/articles/25599201237..., it seems you may be able to do an email-only account). In Person-to-Merchant, I'm not sure what information are shared. > Moreover payment systems that prioritize the needs of merchants usually are horrible for consumers Supporting merchants flow to pay is different from prioritizing their needs so I'm unsure where you're going from there. It's also completely separated from Person-to-Person payments. PayPal supports Person-To-Merchant and I wouldn't say they are great for merchant.
selfmodruntime 2mo ago
PayPal Germany is a different beast. Germans are the only country that majorly doesn't rely on Credit Cards when doing online payment.

Paypal is quite popular in Germany but with Wero that popularity will decrease significantly. I expect that all around the Europe.

by mertbio 2mo ago

Paypal is quite popular in Germany but with Wero that popularity will decrease significantly. I expect that all around the Europe.

solarkraft 2mo ago

I have not tried Wero, but I have tried the german predecessor (paydirekt/giropay). It was ... not much less smooth than PayPal. But I’ve only ever seen a single vendor offering it. 0 for Wero so far.

LelouBil 2mo ago
I don't think vendors can offer Wero yet. I think it's part of the merger with other European companies.
- Semaphor 2mo ago
  That is what keeps confusing me when people hype wero. It essentially (I think some limited trials?) doesn't exist for B2C, and sending money to friends is a very minor use case. So once it has really broad support and can be used as merchant, is when it'll maybe become interesting.
  - LelouBil 2mo ago
    Well it's a nice thing to be able to send money across european countries only with a phone number even if it's only among consumers for now. But it's been confirmed they are merging with companies that are already B2C in their own countries to bring a european B2C system
ahoef 2mo ago
Wero is essentially iDeal. iDeal is great.
- r1ch 2mo ago
  Great for merchants, not so much for consumers. Once the merchant has your money it's very difficult to get it back if things go wrong.
  - omnimus 2mo ago
    What is the alternative? I am not sure i can get my money back once they leave the card.
  - hocuspocus 2mo ago
    Which is pretty much the case with Visa and MC too. There's little card payment fraud in Europe thanks to mandated strong authentication, and very low transaction fees as interchange is capped by the EU; card issuers don't initiate chargebacks so easily.
    - SkiFire13 2mo ago
      > There's little card payment fraud You're confusing fraud as in unauthorized payments with fraud as in you not receiving what you paid for. The latter is not prevented by 3DS in any way.
      - hocuspocus 2mo ago
        No I'm not. Ask anyone who tried to dispute a purchase that happened within the EEA, whether online with SCA or card present with PIN, card issuers often tell you to deal with the merchant directly. The interchange cap has significantly reduced revenue made on card payments, they have an incentive to avoid unnecessary manual work.
- whazor 2mo ago
  It is not. Wero has charge back support and therefor higher fees. There is quite some interest in Pay by Bank via PSD2 APIs. This is much more similar to iDeal and can work for the entire EU.
fallingbananna 2mo ago
In most countries, Wero is still in incubating stage. i.e., banks anouncing that in the next 3 years they will support it. Of course it's not widely used by vendors when it's still in development. I am hopeful that it will take off to some degree in the nearest 5 years though.

juujian 2mo ago

I don't know if popular is quite the right word. It certainly is widely used though...

janpio 2mo ago

I like your optimism.

okanat 2mo ago

Paying with Paypal is as easy as logging in. With Wero/iDeal you always need a phone or a code. People trust PayPal more too.

Sayrus 2mo ago
Wero has a for merchant/commerce part that integrates with PSPs. For instance Adyen: https://www.adyen.com/knowledge-hub/wero https://www.adyen.com/knowledge-hub/wero But we aren't there yet.
- okanat 2mo ago
  I don't get why you pointed out that, to be honest. I'm not a merchant. I am a consumer. As a consumer I would like to avoid Master Card / Visa as much as possible and also giving numbers out as much as possible. Paypal allows that and I don't need to use my phone to approve payments. Moreover payment systems that prioritize the needs of merchants usually are horrible for consumers. If Wero becomes such a platform, I will avoid it.
  - Sayrus 2mo ago
    I misunderstood your initial point about logging-in. On PayPal logging in requires my phone, even with hardware 2FA because sometimes it decides my new IP/Browser/luck isn't trusted enough so it needs to send me a SMS/WhatsApp message so it didn't even register with me that you would be talking about taking out your phone as an additional friction. I see that now, in which case: you're completely right. WeRo requires a phone and one that uses either Google Play Store or Apple App Store and worse, depending on your bank that requires strong Play Integrity. In term of implementation, WeRo looks more like a response to mobile payments like WhatApp, WeChat, Alipay, ... than a response a provider like PayPal. However, I haven't seen anything that'd limit them from expending support if they wished to. > and also giving numbers out as much as possible In Person-to-Person, you don't have to share your number. You can use QRCode (Direct SEPA). I'm not entirely sure of the email implementation, but maybe these do not share the phone number either (Edit: seeing https://support.wero-wallet.eu/hc/en-us/articles/25599201237009-Do-I-have-to-link-a-phone-number-or-e-mail-address-to-use-Wero https://support.wero-wallet.eu/hc/en-us/articles/25599201237..., it seems you may be able to do an email-only account). In Person-to-Merchant, I'm not sure what information are shared. > Moreover payment systems that prioritize the needs of merchants usually are horrible for consumers Supporting merchants flow to pay is different from prioritizing their needs so I'm unsure where you're going from there. It's also completely separated from Person-to-Person payments. PayPal supports Person-To-Merchant and I wouldn't say they are great for merchant.

selfmodruntime 2mo ago

PayPal Germany is a different beast. Germans are the only country that majorly doesn't rely on Credit Cards when doing online payment.