6 ms·

StubHub, CEO hit with ‘deceptive practices’ class action over mass scalping

150 points by b112 3mo ago

darth_avocado 3mo ago
> StubHub and its CEO, Eric Baker, have been hit with a proposed $5-million class-action lawsuit This should be much higher. A class action lawsuit shouldn’t be worth less than what these people can make scalping a single Taylor Swift concert. This just opens an opportunity for them to settle, admit no wrongdoing and then include a clause in the settlement that prevents further lawsuits.
- gruez 3mo ago
  IANAL, but the exact language from the complaint was: >WHEREFORE, Plaintiff, individually and on behalf of the Class, respectfully requests that this Court: >... >Award compensatory, statutory, and/or restitutionary damages, as applicable, in an amount to be determined at trial and that the aggregate amount in controversy across the whole class exceeds $5,000,000; it doesn't say that the damages are capped at 5M, only that they're asking for at least 5M.
i_am_jl 3mo ago
For StubHub to have insider dealing isn't so surprising, but I am shocked at how brazenly and openly it's occurring. Nothing covert or concealed, just the CEO of a marketplace openly admitting that they run a hedge fund that resells scalped goods on that marketplace while keeping other scalpers off the platform.
- tailscaler2026 3mo ago
  welcome to america 2026. where it's not only encouraged but expected that you're lying, cheating, and stealing your way to the top.
  - gruez 3mo ago
    2026? As if stubhub/ticketmaster only materialized after trump2?
    - treis 3mo ago
      Ticketmaster sure but back in the day I could get tickets for a song on stubhub. That seems to be a relic of the past and the resale ticket marketplace is barely less than face value.
- mistrial9 3mo ago
  no, it gets more layers.. a quick search says "Through its affiliate Colloquy Capital, StubHub helps bankroll other mass ticket scalpers by providing short-term financing based on expected future sales, further inflating the volume of professional resellers on the platform." (I have no direct knowledge of these participants)
xnx 3mo ago
Scummy behavior, but customers are also tacitly endorsing high prices when they pay $1500 for a Taylor Swift (or name your artist) ticket.
- gruez 3mo ago
  You're not entirely wrong, but the root issue is artists not charging the market clearing price for tickets. If you're selling something worth $1000 for $200, you shouldn't be surprised arbitrageurs pop up to take advantage.
  - eightysixfour 3mo ago
    > You're not entirely wrong, but the root issue is artists not charging the market clearing price for tickets. Because there is value for the artist in maintaining the perception of accessibility.
    - gruez 3mo ago
      That's also easy to solve. Allocate discounted tickets by lottery and bind to a name (think airline tickets). If for whatever reason they can't make it, the ticket goes back into the lottery pool. Or maybe if they want the tickets to be transferable, you can put in some nominee ticket holders (eg. max 3 people you can transfer it to).
    - meatmanek 3mo ago
      My (probably mis-)understanding of StubHub/Ticketmaster is that they're serving as sin eaters / reputation shields for the artists: Phase 1: - Artist lists tickets as "$20" - SH/TM charges $20 + $15 convenience fee - SH/TM pays the artist $30 and keeps $5 - Artist gets to look like they're kind/generous for pricing so affordably while making some of SH/TM's cut Phase 2: - SH/TM hold back some percentage of tickets (possibly most or all of them) to sell on the "resale" market - Those "resale" tickets sell near the market-clearing price, either earning higher margins than if they had sold at list price, or ensuring that most of the seats in the venue are filled. - SH/TM kick back some percentage of revenue from resale tickets to the artist.
vjvjvjvjghv 3mo ago
I don’t really understand the outrage over scalpers. Isn’t this just normal market behavior? Is a retailer that buys things and sells them with a markup a scalper? People seem to be willing to pay crazy prices for events.
- andrew_lettuce 3mo ago
  The outrage is over the apparent collusion between a platform that argues it only facilitates a fan-to-fan marketplace, and a hedge fund run by the platform's CEO that sells a massive volume of resale tickets. This is definitely not on the spirit of competition regardless of it's illegal or not
- fecal_henge 3mo ago
  The ultimate customers would certainly pay more than the face price which is what the scalpers pay, yet the scalpers get all the tickets. This is abnormal market behaviour.
  - brookst 3mo ago
    What’s normal? An auction would be the obvious solution, and I guess you could argue it effectively is an auction, just with initial sales that pretend to be a race and are actually sold to speculators who then run the auction.
- Brendinooo 3mo ago
  >Is a retailer that buys things and sells them with a markup a scalper? If you bought all of the food then offered the food at 10x the prices, we'd be outraged with you, yes. Stakes are lower because it's a luxury good, not food, but it's the same idea.
  - bawolff 3mo ago
    There is a reason this doesn't work in general though. If you bought up all the food, farmers would raise prices until either you couldn't afford to do that anymore or eventually there is a splurge of new farmers taking advantage of all your free money until you run out of money. It could maybe work in times of famine where the government introduces price controls or rationing; it does not work in normal times. For black markets (which is essentially what scalping is) to work, there has to be some shortage of a good that is priced artificially low. It works with concerts because singers can only sing so much but they also don't want to make the concert so unaffordable that only millionaires can go. There are very few situations like that. In most industries you would just increase prices until supply equals demand.
nubinetwork 3mo ago
We've known for years that ticketmaster scams their tickets on StubHub. Concerts selling out instantly, to only see tons of tickets on stub... I'm sure if they get shut down, they'll just do it again under a different name, but they can't pretend it's a small handful of scalpers when they're the ones doing it themselves.
dclaw 3mo ago
End it. Make reselling tickets illegal again overall. Allow resale within 5 days of the show only (for those that genuinely can't make it), and for face value+original fees only.
- Analemma_ 3mo ago
  The fact that "the name on the ticket must match your photo ID, but you can resell at any time before the event" would instantly solve scalping problems and yet nobody does it is your clue that nobody actually wants scalping problems to be solved. Scalpers are the sin eaters for Ticketmaster and the events themselves, taking the hate so the performers don't have to.
  - sofixa 3mo ago
    Adding ID checks would make venue entry a slower and more tedious process.
    - 1986 3mo ago
      In the vast majority of venues, ID checks are happening anyway to verify eligibility for drinking.
      - gonight 3mo ago
        Yup, I'm in 30s and have been ID'd for every show I've gone to in the last few years.
    - irishcoffee 3mo ago
      Here’s a wild idea, tie tickets to a drivers license/photo id number, and scan the id. Edit guess that doesn’t work for kids. Start the tickets at 10k and drop them by a percentage a day. Automatic price discovery. Rich people can just buy them whenever they want.
    - gruez 3mo ago
      >Adding ID checks would make venue entry a slower and more tedious process. Airports seem to handle them just fine?
dopamean 3mo ago
The article makes it sound like the information about Andro is new but it has been known for years. An SEC filing[0] from March of last year mentions it and I was able to find a post on Wall Street Oasis[1] talking about Andro three years ago. Awful, predatory behavior for sure. Is it just the issues with the World Cup ticket sales that have made people care about this? [0] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1337634/000119312525060140/d225849ds1.htm https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1337634/000119312525... [1] https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/andro-capital-in-la https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/andro-c...
- reactordev 3mo ago
  Those with ties to the industry have known for decades.
desktopentree 3mo ago
i see this less as a pricing or free market issue and more of a governance concern. trading against your own consumer base isn't free market.
orivibes 3mo ago
Omg I hate them so much
sixsevenrot 3mo ago
Funny: hackernews always moans about the loss of privacy, but this thread is all about making ID checks mandatory for all events.

150 points by b112 3mo ago

> StubHub and its CEO, Eric Baker, have been hit with a proposed $5-million class-action lawsuit This should be much higher. A class action lawsuit shouldn’t be worth less than what these people can make scalping a single Taylor Swift concert. This just opens an opportunity for them to settle, admit no wrongdoing and then include a clause in the settlement that prevents further lawsuits.

gruez 3mo ago
IANAL, but the exact language from the complaint was: >WHEREFORE, Plaintiff, individually and on behalf of the Class, respectfully requests that this Court: >... >Award compensatory, statutory, and/or restitutionary damages, as applicable, in an amount to be determined at trial and that the aggregate amount in controversy across the whole class exceeds $5,000,000; it doesn't say that the damages are capped at 5M, only that they're asking for at least 5M.

i_am_jl 3mo ago

For StubHub to have insider dealing isn't so surprising, but I am shocked at how brazenly and openly it's occurring. Nothing covert or concealed, just the CEO of a marketplace openly admitting that they run a hedge fund that resells scalped goods on that marketplace while keeping other scalpers off the platform.

tailscaler2026 3mo ago
welcome to america 2026. where it's not only encouraged but expected that you're lying, cheating, and stealing your way to the top.
- gruez 3mo ago
  2026? As if stubhub/ticketmaster only materialized after trump2?
  - treis 3mo ago
    Ticketmaster sure but back in the day I could get tickets for a song on stubhub. That seems to be a relic of the past and the resale ticket marketplace is barely less than face value.
mistrial9 3mo ago
no, it gets more layers.. a quick search says "Through its affiliate Colloquy Capital, StubHub helps bankroll other mass ticket scalpers by providing short-term financing based on expected future sales, further inflating the volume of professional resellers on the platform." (I have no direct knowledge of these participants)

xnx 3mo ago

Scummy behavior, but customers are also tacitly endorsing high prices when they pay $1500 for a Taylor Swift (or name your artist) ticket.

gruez 3mo ago
You're not entirely wrong, but the root issue is artists not charging the market clearing price for tickets. If you're selling something worth $1000 for $200, you shouldn't be surprised arbitrageurs pop up to take advantage.
- eightysixfour 3mo ago
  > You're not entirely wrong, but the root issue is artists not charging the market clearing price for tickets. Because there is value for the artist in maintaining the perception of accessibility.
  - gruez 3mo ago
    That's also easy to solve. Allocate discounted tickets by lottery and bind to a name (think airline tickets). If for whatever reason they can't make it, the ticket goes back into the lottery pool. Or maybe if they want the tickets to be transferable, you can put in some nominee ticket holders (eg. max 3 people you can transfer it to).
  - meatmanek 3mo ago
    My (probably mis-)understanding of StubHub/Ticketmaster is that they're serving as sin eaters / reputation shields for the artists: Phase 1: - Artist lists tickets as "$20" - SH/TM charges $20 + $15 convenience fee - SH/TM pays the artist $30 and keeps $5 - Artist gets to look like they're kind/generous for pricing so affordably while making some of SH/TM's cut Phase 2: - SH/TM hold back some percentage of tickets (possibly most or all of them) to sell on the "resale" market - Those "resale" tickets sell near the market-clearing price, either earning higher margins than if they had sold at list price, or ensuring that most of the seats in the venue are filled. - SH/TM kick back some percentage of revenue from resale tickets to the artist.

vjvjvjvjghv 3mo ago

I don’t really understand the outrage over scalpers. Isn’t this just normal market behavior? Is a retailer that buys things and sells them with a markup a scalper? People seem to be willing to pay crazy prices for events.

andrew_lettuce 3mo ago
The outrage is over the apparent collusion between a platform that argues it only facilitates a fan-to-fan marketplace, and a hedge fund run by the platform's CEO that sells a massive volume of resale tickets. This is definitely not on the spirit of competition regardless of it's illegal or not
fecal_henge 3mo ago
The ultimate customers would certainly pay more than the face price which is what the scalpers pay, yet the scalpers get all the tickets. This is abnormal market behaviour.
- brookst 3mo ago
  What’s normal? An auction would be the obvious solution, and I guess you could argue it effectively is an auction, just with initial sales that pretend to be a race and are actually sold to speculators who then run the auction.
Brendinooo 3mo ago
>Is a retailer that buys things and sells them with a markup a scalper? If you bought all of the food then offered the food at 10x the prices, we'd be outraged with you, yes. Stakes are lower because it's a luxury good, not food, but it's the same idea.
- bawolff 3mo ago
  There is a reason this doesn't work in general though. If you bought up all the food, farmers would raise prices until either you couldn't afford to do that anymore or eventually there is a splurge of new farmers taking advantage of all your free money until you run out of money. It could maybe work in times of famine where the government introduces price controls or rationing; it does not work in normal times. For black markets (which is essentially what scalping is) to work, there has to be some shortage of a good that is priced artificially low. It works with concerts because singers can only sing so much but they also don't want to make the concert so unaffordable that only millionaires can go. There are very few situations like that. In most industries you would just increase prices until supply equals demand.

nubinetwork 3mo ago

We've known for years that ticketmaster scams their tickets on StubHub. Concerts selling out instantly, to only see tons of tickets on stub... I'm sure if they get shut down, they'll just do it again under a different name, but they can't pretend it's a small handful of scalpers when they're the ones doing it themselves.

dclaw 3mo ago

End it. Make reselling tickets illegal again overall. Allow resale within 5 days of the show only (for those that genuinely can't make it), and for face value+original fees only.

Analemma_ 3mo ago
The fact that "the name on the ticket must match your photo ID, but you can resell at any time before the event" would instantly solve scalping problems and yet nobody does it is your clue that nobody actually wants scalping problems to be solved. Scalpers are the sin eaters for Ticketmaster and the events themselves, taking the hate so the performers don't have to.
- sofixa 3mo ago
  Adding ID checks would make venue entry a slower and more tedious process.
  - 1986 3mo ago
    In the vast majority of venues, ID checks are happening anyway to verify eligibility for drinking.
    - gonight 3mo ago
      Yup, I'm in 30s and have been ID'd for every show I've gone to in the last few years.
  - irishcoffee 3mo ago
    Here’s a wild idea, tie tickets to a drivers license/photo id number, and scan the id. Edit guess that doesn’t work for kids. Start the tickets at 10k and drop them by a percentage a day. Automatic price discovery. Rich people can just buy them whenever they want.
  - gruez 3mo ago
    >Adding ID checks would make venue entry a slower and more tedious process. Airports seem to handle them just fine?

dopamean 3mo ago

The article makes it sound like the information about Andro is new but it has been known for years. An SEC filing[0] from March of last year mentions it and I was able to find a post on Wall Street Oasis[1] talking about Andro three years ago. Awful, predatory behavior for sure. Is it just the issues with the World Cup ticket sales that have made people care about this? [0] https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1337634/000119312525060140/d225849ds1.htm https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1337634/000119312525... [1] https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/andro-capital-in-la https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/private-equity/andro-c...

reactordev 3mo ago
Those with ties to the industry have known for decades.

desktopentree 3mo ago

i see this less as a pricing or free market issue and more of a governance concern. trading against your own consumer base isn't free market.

orivibes 3mo ago

Omg I hate them so much

sixsevenrot 3mo ago

Funny: hackernews always moans about the loss of privacy, but this thread is all about making ID checks mandatory for all events.