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> Every day investors absolutely buy these shares; these price targets are publicly available and SpaceX shares are equally publicly available. And you can jus

by ericmay 3mo ago

> Every day investors absolutely buy these shares; these price targets are publicly available and SpaceX shares are equally publicly available. And you can just not buy the shares. It's very straightforward.

ceejayoz 3mo ago
> And you can just not buy the shares. It's very straightforward. Sure, but the SEC exists, in theory, to make that decision one you can make an informed decision on, because con artists don't typically put a disclaimer in that says "this is bullshit".
- ericmay 3mo ago
  You can't make an informed decision on it unless you do your own research and analyze an individual stock. Then it's up to you to decide if it's worth investing in. This is true for any investment. Just because you think something is bullshit doesn't mean it is. Maybe you're just wrong. Buy the security or don't.
  - ceejayoz 3mo ago
    > You can't make an informed decision on it unless you do your own research… Most retail investors suffer from significant information asymmetry. We have regulations, in part, to mitigate this fact. > Just because you think something is bullshit doesn't mean it is. A point you yourself might remember when arguing on the internet.
    - ericmay 3mo ago
      > Most retail investors suffer from significant information asymmetry. We have regulations, in part, to mitigate this fact. I don't disagree - however that's a separate point from the OP's it's all a scam and pump-and-dump sentiments and doesn't detract from any point I've made. > A point you yourself might remember when arguing on the internet. I know it feels great to write things like this but I don't care - my point stands alone and it's only applicable to you and what you wrote regarding valuations.
      - ceejayoz 3mo ago
        A pump and dump is information asymmetry writ large. It’s how it works! A pump and dump scam doesn’t care if valuation goes down as long as they can exit profitably.
        ericmay 3mo ago
        Then just don't buy the pump-and-dump and stick to ETFs. Already explained things like lockup periods. Investment firms marketing the IPO also do. not. want. IPO prices to crater after the IPO. It makes them look bad, it harms their business, investors will avoid shops that loop them in on what turn out to be obvious scams or whatever. But even if they don't, who cares? They (I) are sophisticated investors. If I make a bad investment I'm an adult with means and I can live with the consequences. Why didn't I buy the SpaceX IPO? Because I think it's a crappy investment! They tried to pump-and-dump but they sure couldn't catch me. See how easy it is?
        ceejayoz 3mo ago
        > Then just don't buy the pump-and-dump… I feel like you're unclear on what information asymmetry means. This is "just don't get murdered!" style advice. > Why didn't I buy the SpaceX IPO? Because I think it's a crappy investment! They tried to pump-and-dump but they sure couldn't catch me. See how easy it is? The naïve retail investors you suggest should buy index funds will be exposed to SpaceX and the other AI companies through them, no?
        ericmay 3mo ago
        > The naïve retail investors you suggest should buy index funds will be exposed to SpaceX and the other AI companies through them, no? You're exposed to any company that hits the public market, depending on which ETF you buy. Could be the S&P 500 or a Total Market Index or some mix of those two plus international ETFs. You name it. Of course that's the downside of the ETF, but it's also the upside because the assumption is you can't pick winners and losers in the market so you buy them all. I think, for example, Microsoft is a terrible investment because almost all of their products suck ass. I have shares though through an ETF and that's the price I pay because while I think it's a terrible investment I could be wrong. Just like you can be wrong about SpaceX. Your point of contention here really just doesn't make a lot of sense. You're declaring IPOs like SpaceX to be pump-and-dumps but not providing your own research and valuation model, and then at the same time complaining that retail investors who aren't doing their own research are going against industry advice and buying those IPOs, while also complaining that big banks shop IPO deals (as they have done for a century) to their high net worth clients who are... responsible investors who are making sophisticated decisions? And of course you're ignoring the fact that in order to offload bags one has to find someone to offload those bags to, there are lockup periods, due diligence, and other mechanisms in place to prevent or mitigate the scenario you are describing because it is bad business and you can be sued for doing shady things. And you know what, maybe you're just wrong about SpaceX[1] and because the retail investors have shares due to the ETF they make more money than they otherwise would. In other words, calling something a pump-and-dump is just like, your opinion. [1] I have no shares in SpaceX and don't care much about the company one way or the other besides being generally positive on space technology and exploration. I think Elon Musk is a loser, and I also don't own any direct shares in Tesla.
- nradov 3mo ago
  You appear to have misunderstood the role of the SEC. They will investigate civil violations of securities laws but there has been no credible allegation of such here. They don't take responsibility for stock valuation.
  - ceejayoz 3mo ago
    > They don't take responsibility for stock valuation. Nice strawman, but that's not what I said. They can, and do, intervene in things like lying to investors to inflate valuations.
    - nradov 3mo ago
      What is the specific lie in this case? I mean something that's factually incorrect, not just optimistic.
      - ceejayoz 3mo ago
        > I mean something that's factually incorrect, not just optimistic. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2075291102324641925 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2075291102324641925 At what point does the optimism become a lie?
        nradov 3mo ago
        There's no lie in that tweet, just an opinion. You're free to ignore it as I do. You can even block or mute the whole account.
        ceejayoz 3mo ago
        "SpaceX will be worth more than the rest of Earth if we accomplish our goals" is a lie.
        ericmay 3mo ago
        Well not really. So you're wrong here yet again. What's the total value of all minerals and resources on Earth. If SpaceX had a goal to colonize other planets or asteroids and the sum total value of the minerals and other resources that they had access to was greater than the value of what is here on earth, what exactly is a lie about that statement? Of course, the aspiration and attempt may fail, but in this quote they did say if. You're letting your dislike/distrust of Elon Musk cloud your judgement. If you don't like him or don't like what he says, don't buy shares in his companies, don't buy his products, and don't read what he writes.

by ericmay 3mo ago

ceejayoz 3mo ago

> And you can just not buy the shares. It's very straightforward. Sure, but the SEC exists, in theory, to make that decision one you can make an informed decision on, because con artists don't typically put a disclaimer in that says "this is bullshit".

ericmay 3mo ago
You can't make an informed decision on it unless you do your own research and analyze an individual stock. Then it's up to you to decide if it's worth investing in. This is true for any investment. Just because you think something is bullshit doesn't mean it is. Maybe you're just wrong. Buy the security or don't.
- ceejayoz 3mo ago
  > You can't make an informed decision on it unless you do your own research… Most retail investors suffer from significant information asymmetry. We have regulations, in part, to mitigate this fact. > Just because you think something is bullshit doesn't mean it is. A point you yourself might remember when arguing on the internet.
  - ericmay 3mo ago
    > Most retail investors suffer from significant information asymmetry. We have regulations, in part, to mitigate this fact. I don't disagree - however that's a separate point from the OP's it's all a scam and pump-and-dump sentiments and doesn't detract from any point I've made. > A point you yourself might remember when arguing on the internet. I know it feels great to write things like this but I don't care - my point stands alone and it's only applicable to you and what you wrote regarding valuations.
    - ceejayoz 3mo ago
      A pump and dump is information asymmetry writ large. It’s how it works! A pump and dump scam doesn’t care if valuation goes down as long as they can exit profitably.
      - ericmay 3mo ago
        Then just don't buy the pump-and-dump and stick to ETFs. Already explained things like lockup periods. Investment firms marketing the IPO also do. not. want. IPO prices to crater after the IPO. It makes them look bad, it harms their business, investors will avoid shops that loop them in on what turn out to be obvious scams or whatever. But even if they don't, who cares? They (I) are sophisticated investors. If I make a bad investment I'm an adult with means and I can live with the consequences. Why didn't I buy the SpaceX IPO? Because I think it's a crappy investment! They tried to pump-and-dump but they sure couldn't catch me. See how easy it is?
        ceejayoz 3mo ago
        > Then just don't buy the pump-and-dump… I feel like you're unclear on what information asymmetry means. This is "just don't get murdered!" style advice. > Why didn't I buy the SpaceX IPO? Because I think it's a crappy investment! They tried to pump-and-dump but they sure couldn't catch me. See how easy it is? The naïve retail investors you suggest should buy index funds will be exposed to SpaceX and the other AI companies through them, no?
        ericmay 3mo ago
        > The naïve retail investors you suggest should buy index funds will be exposed to SpaceX and the other AI companies through them, no? You're exposed to any company that hits the public market, depending on which ETF you buy. Could be the S&P 500 or a Total Market Index or some mix of those two plus international ETFs. You name it. Of course that's the downside of the ETF, but it's also the upside because the assumption is you can't pick winners and losers in the market so you buy them all. I think, for example, Microsoft is a terrible investment because almost all of their products suck ass. I have shares though through an ETF and that's the price I pay because while I think it's a terrible investment I could be wrong. Just like you can be wrong about SpaceX. Your point of contention here really just doesn't make a lot of sense. You're declaring IPOs like SpaceX to be pump-and-dumps but not providing your own research and valuation model, and then at the same time complaining that retail investors who aren't doing their own research are going against industry advice and buying those IPOs, while also complaining that big banks shop IPO deals (as they have done for a century) to their high net worth clients who are... responsible investors who are making sophisticated decisions? And of course you're ignoring the fact that in order to offload bags one has to find someone to offload those bags to, there are lockup periods, due diligence, and other mechanisms in place to prevent or mitigate the scenario you are describing because it is bad business and you can be sued for doing shady things. And you know what, maybe you're just wrong about SpaceX[1] and because the retail investors have shares due to the ETF they make more money than they otherwise would. In other words, calling something a pump-and-dump is just like, your opinion. [1] I have no shares in SpaceX and don't care much about the company one way or the other besides being generally positive on space technology and exploration. I think Elon Musk is a loser, and I also don't own any direct shares in Tesla.
nradov 3mo ago
You appear to have misunderstood the role of the SEC. They will investigate civil violations of securities laws but there has been no credible allegation of such here. They don't take responsibility for stock valuation.
- ceejayoz 3mo ago
  > They don't take responsibility for stock valuation. Nice strawman, but that's not what I said. They can, and do, intervene in things like lying to investors to inflate valuations.
  - nradov 3mo ago
    What is the specific lie in this case? I mean something that's factually incorrect, not just optimistic.
    - ceejayoz 3mo ago
      > I mean something that's factually incorrect, not just optimistic. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2075291102324641925 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2075291102324641925 At what point does the optimism become a lie?
      - nradov 3mo ago
        There's no lie in that tweet, just an opinion. You're free to ignore it as I do. You can even block or mute the whole account.
        ceejayoz 3mo ago
        "SpaceX will be worth more than the rest of Earth if we accomplish our goals" is a lie.
        ericmay 3mo ago
        Well not really. So you're wrong here yet again. What's the total value of all minerals and resources on Earth. If SpaceX had a goal to colonize other planets or asteroids and the sum total value of the minerals and other resources that they had access to was greater than the value of what is here on earth, what exactly is a lie about that statement? Of course, the aspiration and attempt may fail, but in this quote they did say if. You're letting your dislike/distrust of Elon Musk cloud your judgement. If you don't like him or don't like what he says, don't buy shares in his companies, don't buy his products, and don't read what he writes.