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Nobody here is talking about the fact that a significant number of users want apps, too. I'm responsible for an internal tool at the company I work for, hosted

Nobody here is talking about the fact that a significant number of users want apps, too. I'm responsible for an internal tool at the company I work for, hosted as a website, that handles a bunch of miscellaneous tasks that other employees need. Think reimbursements, documentation and reporting, gathering and presenting business data. That sort of thing. When I took it over, it was desktop only ( a lot of <table> formatted pages with fixed px sizes). I spruced it up, modernized it to work on screens of any size, and created a mobile version of any pages that just didn't translate well to small screens (think "large tables of information"). When I announced the update, the number of people who asked me variations of "how to get website on phone if website on computer" or requested I make the damn thing an app was outrageous. We take tech literacy for granted, because it's like a dozen levels down fundamental to our entire field. But the tech illiterati exist, and they love apps.

nitwit005 3mo ago
That sounds less like wanting apps, than simply having no idea what's going on.
- OkayPhysicist 3mo ago
  Honestly, they probably would have been perfectly happy with a bookmark on their home screen, but have you ever tried walking someone who doesn't know how to enter a url into their browser through the process of making a home page bookmark on their phone? Ultimately I ended up making a PWA that does nothing except act as a bookmark. Which was way more of a PITA than it should have been.
  - RetroTechie 3mo ago
    Sounds like what could be a useful built-in OS feature. Along the lines of: "Aim camera at QR code to put "open-link" icon on your home screen" Does something like that not exist?
    - foxygen 3mo ago
      It could, right? But let me tell you a secret: Apple doesn't want PWAs/web apps and actively limits Safari to force developers to build apps.
    - Ajedi32 3mo ago
      Devs can pretty easily implement this on their site using the BeforeInstallPromptEvent.prompt method. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web_apps/Guides/Making_PWAs_installable#triggering_the_install_prompt https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web... Though of course... > This is not supported on iOS.
  - ksec 3mo ago
    >Ultimately I ended up making a PWA that does nothing except act as a bookmark. Which is exactly what I was going to reply to your original post. I am willing to bet 80-90% of user don't want / need / care if it is an Native app. They simply want the website / PWA bookmark icon on their App Screen selection. The problem right now is the experienced of getting a PWA on to an App screen is not user friendly or in someway user hostile because it goes against the fundamental service revenue of their App Store model.
    - gymhasanapp 3mo ago
      That and Apple ACTIVELY does not want PWA to catch on and be user friendly. If a stupid website is turned into an App, then any purchases made through it instantly get slapped with a transaction fee straight to Tim Apple's pockets. There was a whole court case with John Epic about this and everything. A PWA would bypass that. They really, really, really, really, really dont want that.
  - DANmode 3mo ago
    Apple especially has made this intentionally painful. It used to be worse.
- skyberrys 3mo ago
  Most of the users of phones seem to operate on the no idea what's going on model. It's on developers to meet them where they are at, and if that's the app store you better be there for them.
  - JimsonYang 3mo ago
    Agreed, you never insult or complain about the customer you only address their issues
adamddev1 3mo ago
I really wish PWAs were more well-known among average users. If people knew and expected they could install certain websites as apps, that would simplify things so much and really balance the power of the app stores.
- giraffe_lady 3mo ago
  Unfortunately apple accomplished their goal of killing that entire idea. The time for it to take off was 10 years ago. They begrudgingly support it now but it's too late. gg
- jbverschoor 3mo ago
  My problem with PWA, is that it usually completely ruins the multiple tabs/windows of the same app/data
  - notnullorvoid 3mo ago
    On desktop or on mobile? On mobile it's rare for apps other than web browsers to allow multiple tabs/windows and the ones that do (Ex: Gmail allows a draft to be a second window) have many multi window related bugs.
    - JoshTriplett 3mo ago
      > On mobile it's rare for apps other than web browsers One more reason I'd rather have a site than an app: because I can open multiple copies, open a link in a new tab, open different installations of the same site, and all the other things that browsers automatically support.
- realusername 3mo ago
  It's not well known because it's annoying to install ... and it's annoying to install because the stores are huge cash printing machines so that's not going to change.
  - 3mo ago
reaperducer 3mo ago
When I announced the update, the number of people who asked me variations of "how to get website on phone if website on computer" or requested I make the damn thing an app was outrageous. I had a similar experience. It was mostly lower- and middle-managers who needed to put their mark on something visible. I responded with, "Tell me what features you want the app to have that the web site doesn't; or is this a vanity project?" The "vanity project" line is what made people re-think what they were asking. When that didn't work, I pointed out that they'd have to hire an entire new team to do the app, and gave them a high six-figure number to accomplish what they wanted.† That always worked. † For a number of regulatory and political reasons, we cannot offshore for cheap.
hadlock 3mo ago
If the app store allowed you to install bookmarks, I doubt most people would notice.
- groby_b 3mo ago
  It does. It's called a PWA.
  - moooo99 3mo ago
    That is not an App Store functionality, that is a Safari functionality
    - groby_b 3mo ago
      There are other phones. They allow publishing PWAs, it turns out.
- notnullorvoid 3mo ago
  The Google Play store did (maybe still does?) allow installing some PWAs advertised as light versions of the apps.
jonahx 3mo ago
> We take tech literacy for granted, because it's like a dozen levels down fundamental to our entire field. But the tech illiterati exist, and they love apps. They "love apps" because apple and android have spent billions to break their mental models and convince them that "you use apps to do things on your phone". Literally. That's the extent of most people's understanding. So, sure, they "want" apps in the same sense that early internet users "wanted" AOL because in their minds AOL and the internet were indistinguishable. But actual free choice requires an understanding of the choices.
- montag 3mo ago
  That is a great analogy! I still remember the day my cousin explained that there was a whole internet outside of AOL…
- adamwk 3mo ago
  This doesn’t really make sense. Apps were pretty popular immediately after decades of web usage. There are many reasons to prefer an app. Even on desktop; if I’m using a service enough throughout the day, I want a native app, not a website.
  - vaylian 3mo ago
    Web sites optimized for mobile weren't really a thing when the iPhone launched. That's why apps shined on smart phones. Web designers did eventually catch up with the <meta-viewport> hack but the trend towards apps was already too established at that point and people thought that you need an app to use a service.
    - steve1977 3mo ago
      Funnily enough, when the iPhone launched, it didn't have a native SDK. With iPhone OS 1, developers were supposed to create web apps. That only got changed with iPhone OS 2. https://web.archive.org/web/20070722172208/http://developer.apple.com/iphone/ https://web.archive.org/web/20070722172208/http://developer....
bonoboTP 3mo ago
If pinning website bookmarks was more prominently advertised in the UI, they would be fine with it I guess. Though it would need some more changes. Why do people like apps? Because they can put it on their home screen, they can open the app list and pick from there, they are searchable in a canonical repository, which is kind of like googling for the website but still. Login flows are simpler and persist better, with local storage etc. Multiple apps can be switched between by just moving between the currently opened apps, while website tabs appear inside the browser only and are mixed with many other unrelated browsing tabs, making it harder to find. I guess fundamentally all of these could be supported with browsers. But in the end, Google and Apple don't want to make bookmarks and independent persistent "browser windows" easier.
overgard 3mo ago
I think you're right, but I think it's also because the industry trained everyone on this model. I remember ~ 2010-2012 there was a big push to make everything an app. As far as I can tell the only benefit to users is a nice icon on the home page, and the benefit for the company is.. exfiltrating data from the users phone?
0x457 3mo ago
When I say I want an app that implies a few things: - this isn't a one-off use, I don't want an app to pay parking meter once and never use it again. - it's an app and not a WebView pretending to be native - it's native and not react-wanna-be-native - you know how to make an app I have to use this app to open a parcel locker and every time I launch it I have to wait for "downloading bundle". It's probably the easiest kind of app to make and yet somehow they made it worse then a website.
- deleted 3mo ago
  [deleted]
- wodenokoto 3mo ago
  But take parents example. What is it you want the app version to do that a decent website can’t do?
  - pjmlp 3mo ago
    Not the op, proper graphics. Web 3D will never compete with native APIs in developer tooling, and hardware capabilities. Now outside gaming, all CRUD apps could easily be mobile Web.
    - wodenokoto 3mo ago
      Okay, but why do you need 3D for an interface where you register leave?
      - pjmlp 3mo ago
        Missed my last sentence?
  - DeepSeaTortoise 3mo ago
    To me the major distinctions are near full functionality even if I'm offline and the app hasn't been used in a long time and offline-first design with all major assets being available for download ahead of time and/or transferable between devices without re-downloading
EGreg 3mo ago
On iOS, I think the only two reasons to have an app are: notifications and access to contacts.
- tlh 3mo ago
  Rich widgets on the Home Screen are valuable too. As a web developer, I wish I were able to make widgets for people to put on their Home Screen to perform certain actions in less clicks, or have information from my (web) apps easily viewable at a glance. Which I know they would want. Right now, as far as I’m aware, for me to do that in iOS (and possibly Android) is to build those in native land.
  - pjmlp 3mo ago
    Use this to test it out, https://whatpwacando.today/ https://whatpwacando.today/
    - EGreg 3mo ago
      Wait wait. How does PWA when I click "install to home screen" actually show me that rich preview screen, with instructions? That's crazy! Edit: I have been truly wowed today https://web.dev/learn/pwa/installation-prompt https://web.dev/learn/pwa/installation-prompt
TheSkyHasEyes 3mo ago
FTA > I can’t understand how we got to this place with “app culture” > Nobody here is talking about the fact that a significant number of users want apps, too. End users, for the most part don't know what they want. They take when makes sense to them. To end users apps are easy. To us, a URL is easy. > But the tech illiterati exist, and they love apps. Yup!! And we get sucked into this vortex at times. Good post btw.
40four 3mo ago
Okay I guess? So then you politely answer to them the “app” is their web browser of choice! Problem solved
j1elo 3mo ago
As not a web dev, out of curiosity: What would be the drawback or problem with showing a header or pop-up on mobile browsers, offering to install them as (web)app? Then using the PWA functionality of the browser to do it. I'm not a heavy user of those but the result of PWAs has always been an icon that's handled by the OS like if it was any other native app, and when opened it just behaves like the web browser in kiosk mode just for that website.
- wlesieutre 3mo ago
  Would be great, but at least on iOS the only way to add a PWA to your home screen is via the share menu. Apple would need to support that header pop-up to install the PWA and they won’t unless someone makes them.
- Nursie 3mo ago
  > What would be the drawback or problem with showing a header or pop-up on mobile browsers, offering to install them as (web)app? In this world, every single site now pops up asking to be installed. No thanks.
da_chicken 3mo ago
End users don't care about if it's an app or not. What they care about: - Does it do what I need it to - Can I access it easily - Is it easy to navigate - Does it work or is it buggy - Is it slow - Does it abuse notifications - Is it prompting me to log in all the time - Are there too many ads - Can I use it on any device I have - Does it complain about updating constantly I don't think any of those actually has to do with being a website. The problem is that web browsers and websites didn't get a not-stupid UI for phones faster than the phone vendors could funnel everyone into their walled garden. Remember "click here for mobile" and having to develop two web interfaces? And half the time functions would be missing on one side?
- swishman 3mo ago
  I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading these comments. Apps are clearly better for end users. HTML and css is SUPER slow. It doesn't feel native, it doesn't feel good to use. You also get so many weird glitches with state refreshing, sessions being cleared, log in not persisting. Has anyone here actually used a PWA? You can feel that it's slow and clunky. Apps feel SO much better with the native UI, pre-downloaded, much faster etc.
  - akoboldfrying 3mo ago
    I've found the most consistent indicator of overall app quality to be whether it is extremely small in size. An Android app under a megabyte in size is going to use the familiar, high-performance platform-native UI because it doesn't have room to do anything else. It is gonna do what it says on the tin and nothing else. It won't have ads. It won't phone home. Since it doesn't show ads and doesn't phone home, it's quite likely open source, meaning it quite likely has a GitHub project that I can look into if something goes wrong -- and because it's so tiny, I won't need to spend days trying to figure out how it works.
    - Rohansi 3mo ago
      Or, you know, it's small because it's just a WebView wrapping a website.
DANmode 3mo ago
Wrap the page in an app and publish to app store. Can someone explain why this isn’t obvious?
LAC-Tech 3mo ago
My PWA skills are rusty, but IIRC it's one click on Android to install web page as an "app" (ie it appears on the home screen like anything else), and it was about 3 in Safari - perhaps a onerous for B2C, but surely not for internal users. So you can easily make an "App" for normies, from a web page.
nektro 3mo ago
the benefit of apps is they don't break. websites update out from under you and the web expects browsers to always be evergreen
- _carbyau_ 3mo ago
  > the benefit of apps is they don't break What world do you live in? Apps are either enshittified with updates, or the content source the app was using is broken in similar ways to a normal website. The only way you avoid this are sideloaded non-networked apps - which are not the usual.
  - nektro 3mo ago
    updating apps is optional is my point
    - _carbyau_ 3mo ago
      I agree with that point. The useful executable code is contained on your device rather than fetched from a website. No update means you can run that useful code forever. Not many apps are useful in that form though.
AussieWog93 3mo ago
The "uhm, ackshually" responses to this comment are insane.
solarized 3mo ago
> We take tech literacy for granted, because it's like a dozen levels down fundamental to our entire field. But the tech illiterati exist, and they love apps. LOL. Kindly do this prompt to any LLM : "critize this statement, or any logical fallacy inside" Try applying the same level of skepticism to your own statements before posting them on HN.
mvdtnz 3mo ago
> When I announced the update, the number of people who asked me variations of "how to get website on phone if website on computer" or requested I make the damn thing an app was outrageous. This level of technical illiteracy shouldn't be tolerated in the workplace in 2026. We all work on computers all day, there's simply no excuse for being incapable of basic computer operations. Upskill or get out.
deminature 3mo ago
I encountered something similar recently. I put a lot of effort into making a PWA mobile-optimized version of my product which is effective an app in a browser. And I was flooded by user feedback saying they simply would not use the product until there was an app available. There is little option but to create an app in this environment, or face disinterest from potential customers. And the internet is shockingly mobile-focused nowadays, 80-90% of traffic is coming from mobile devices. So not having an app is death for your business. Apple will also not approve a straight web browser in an app wrapper, there's a specific rule that disallows this, so you have to make some good faith effort to implement it natively or not be allowed on the App Store.
culi 3mo ago
so add a manifest.json and give them instructions on how to install a PWA
baranul 3mo ago
> Nobody here is talking about the fact that a significant number of users want apps, too. This is true, as it depends on the nature of what is being presented and if offline usability is preferred or doable. Everything as a website, can arguably be an equally bad fit for situations, as everything as an app. Flexibility and careful study is required.
palata 3mo ago
I came here to say that a significant number of developers want apps, too. Including me. For many reasons including performance. But the one I want to mention here is security, because it systematically gets missed by web people: End-to-end encryption fundamentally doesn't work in webpages. Because when you load a webpage, you have a 1:1 connection to the server which sends you the code you need to run. You have to trust that the server sends you the right code, every single time, and there is no practical way to verify it. The whole point of E2EE is that you don't trust the server, and with a webpage you fundamentally trust the server. That's completely incompatible. Let's compare the Signal mobile app and the ProtonMail website: - With Signal, you can audit the sources, compile them and run that. You know you are running the code you audited. You can trust someone else to audit the code, compile it and run it. Or you can just download it through the Play Store and know that tens (hundreds?) of millions of people did that too. If you download it through the Play Store, you can "verify" your app with someone else, making sure that Google didn't send you a modified version (which would have required Signal and Google to collude in the first place). You know when the app is updated. If it matters for your life, you can make sure you benefit from end-to-end encryption. - With ProtonMail, you load a website. Everytime you load it, the sources could change. When you enter your password, you enter it in that very code that the server just sent you. So the server could identify you, and just this one time, send you a different version of the code, just for you, that would leak your password to them. You don't have any way to pin a version of the website and compare it with others, and there is no need for Proton to collude with anyone else to do that (it's a lot easier when no collusion is needed). Again: end-to-end encryption fundamentally does not work with webpages.

nitwit005 3mo ago

That sounds less like wanting apps, than simply having no idea what's going on.

OkayPhysicist 3mo ago
Honestly, they probably would have been perfectly happy with a bookmark on their home screen, but have you ever tried walking someone who doesn't know how to enter a url into their browser through the process of making a home page bookmark on their phone? Ultimately I ended up making a PWA that does nothing except act as a bookmark. Which was way more of a PITA than it should have been.
- RetroTechie 3mo ago
  Sounds like what could be a useful built-in OS feature. Along the lines of: "Aim camera at QR code to put "open-link" icon on your home screen" Does something like that not exist?
  - foxygen 3mo ago
    It could, right? But let me tell you a secret: Apple doesn't want PWAs/web apps and actively limits Safari to force developers to build apps.
  - Ajedi32 3mo ago
    Devs can pretty easily implement this on their site using the BeforeInstallPromptEvent.prompt method. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web_apps/Guides/Making_PWAs_installable#triggering_the_install_prompt https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web... Though of course... > This is not supported on iOS.
- ksec 3mo ago
  >Ultimately I ended up making a PWA that does nothing except act as a bookmark. Which is exactly what I was going to reply to your original post. I am willing to bet 80-90% of user don't want / need / care if it is an Native app. They simply want the website / PWA bookmark icon on their App Screen selection. The problem right now is the experienced of getting a PWA on to an App screen is not user friendly or in someway user hostile because it goes against the fundamental service revenue of their App Store model.
  - gymhasanapp 3mo ago
    That and Apple ACTIVELY does not want PWA to catch on and be user friendly. If a stupid website is turned into an App, then any purchases made through it instantly get slapped with a transaction fee straight to Tim Apple's pockets. There was a whole court case with John Epic about this and everything. A PWA would bypass that. They really, really, really, really, really dont want that.
- DANmode 3mo ago
  Apple especially has made this intentionally painful. It used to be worse.
skyberrys 3mo ago
Most of the users of phones seem to operate on the no idea what's going on model. It's on developers to meet them where they are at, and if that's the app store you better be there for them.
- JimsonYang 3mo ago
  Agreed, you never insult or complain about the customer you only address their issues

adamddev1 3mo ago

I really wish PWAs were more well-known among average users. If people knew and expected they could install certain websites as apps, that would simplify things so much and really balance the power of the app stores.

giraffe_lady 3mo ago
Unfortunately apple accomplished their goal of killing that entire idea. The time for it to take off was 10 years ago. They begrudgingly support it now but it's too late. gg
jbverschoor 3mo ago
My problem with PWA, is that it usually completely ruins the multiple tabs/windows of the same app/data
- notnullorvoid 3mo ago
  On desktop or on mobile? On mobile it's rare for apps other than web browsers to allow multiple tabs/windows and the ones that do (Ex: Gmail allows a draft to be a second window) have many multi window related bugs.
  - JoshTriplett 3mo ago
    > On mobile it's rare for apps other than web browsers One more reason I'd rather have a site than an app: because I can open multiple copies, open a link in a new tab, open different installations of the same site, and all the other things that browsers automatically support.
realusername 3mo ago
It's not well known because it's annoying to install ... and it's annoying to install because the stores are huge cash printing machines so that's not going to change.
- 3mo ago

reaperducer 3mo ago

When I announced the update, the number of people who asked me variations of "how to get website on phone if website on computer" or requested I make the damn thing an app was outrageous. I had a similar experience. It was mostly lower- and middle-managers who needed to put their mark on something visible. I responded with, "Tell me what features you want the app to have that the web site doesn't; or is this a vanity project?" The "vanity project" line is what made people re-think what they were asking. When that didn't work, I pointed out that they'd have to hire an entire new team to do the app, and gave them a high six-figure number to accomplish what they wanted.† That always worked. † For a number of regulatory and political reasons, we cannot offshore for cheap.

hadlock 3mo ago

If the app store allowed you to install bookmarks, I doubt most people would notice.

groby_b 3mo ago
It does. It's called a PWA.
- moooo99 3mo ago
  That is not an App Store functionality, that is a Safari functionality
  - groby_b 3mo ago
    There are other phones. They allow publishing PWAs, it turns out.
notnullorvoid 3mo ago
The Google Play store did (maybe still does?) allow installing some PWAs advertised as light versions of the apps.

jonahx 3mo ago

> We take tech literacy for granted, because it's like a dozen levels down fundamental to our entire field. But the tech illiterati exist, and they love apps. They "love apps" because apple and android have spent billions to break their mental models and convince them that "you use apps to do things on your phone". Literally. That's the extent of most people's understanding. So, sure, they "want" apps in the same sense that early internet users "wanted" AOL because in their minds AOL and the internet were indistinguishable. But actual free choice requires an understanding of the choices.

montag 3mo ago
That is a great analogy! I still remember the day my cousin explained that there was a whole internet outside of AOL…
adamwk 3mo ago
This doesn’t really make sense. Apps were pretty popular immediately after decades of web usage. There are many reasons to prefer an app. Even on desktop; if I’m using a service enough throughout the day, I want a native app, not a website.
- vaylian 3mo ago
  Web sites optimized for mobile weren't really a thing when the iPhone launched. That's why apps shined on smart phones. Web designers did eventually catch up with the <meta-viewport> hack but the trend towards apps was already too established at that point and people thought that you need an app to use a service.
  - steve1977 3mo ago
    Funnily enough, when the iPhone launched, it didn't have a native SDK. With iPhone OS 1, developers were supposed to create web apps. That only got changed with iPhone OS 2. https://web.archive.org/web/20070722172208/http://developer.apple.com/iphone/ https://web.archive.org/web/20070722172208/http://developer....

bonoboTP 3mo ago

If pinning website bookmarks was more prominently advertised in the UI, they would be fine with it I guess. Though it would need some more changes. Why do people like apps? Because they can put it on their home screen, they can open the app list and pick from there, they are searchable in a canonical repository, which is kind of like googling for the website but still. Login flows are simpler and persist better, with local storage etc. Multiple apps can be switched between by just moving between the currently opened apps, while website tabs appear inside the browser only and are mixed with many other unrelated browsing tabs, making it harder to find. I guess fundamentally all of these could be supported with browsers. But in the end, Google and Apple don't want to make bookmarks and independent persistent "browser windows" easier.

overgard 3mo ago

I think you're right, but I think it's also because the industry trained everyone on this model. I remember ~ 2010-2012 there was a big push to make everything an app. As far as I can tell the only benefit to users is a nice icon on the home page, and the benefit for the company is.. exfiltrating data from the users phone?

0x457 3mo ago

When I say I want an app that implies a few things: - this isn't a one-off use, I don't want an app to pay parking meter once and never use it again. - it's an app and not a WebView pretending to be native - it's native and not react-wanna-be-native - you know how to make an app I have to use this app to open a parcel locker and every time I launch it I have to wait for "downloading bundle". It's probably the easiest kind of app to make and yet somehow they made it worse then a website.

deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
wodenokoto 3mo ago
But take parents example. What is it you want the app version to do that a decent website can’t do?
- pjmlp 3mo ago
  Not the op, proper graphics. Web 3D will never compete with native APIs in developer tooling, and hardware capabilities. Now outside gaming, all CRUD apps could easily be mobile Web.
  - wodenokoto 3mo ago
    Okay, but why do you need 3D for an interface where you register leave?
    - pjmlp 3mo ago
      Missed my last sentence?
- DeepSeaTortoise 3mo ago
  To me the major distinctions are near full functionality even if I'm offline and the app hasn't been used in a long time and offline-first design with all major assets being available for download ahead of time and/or transferable between devices without re-downloading

EGreg 3mo ago

On iOS, I think the only two reasons to have an app are: notifications and access to contacts.

tlh 3mo ago
Rich widgets on the Home Screen are valuable too. As a web developer, I wish I were able to make widgets for people to put on their Home Screen to perform certain actions in less clicks, or have information from my (web) apps easily viewable at a glance. Which I know they would want. Right now, as far as I’m aware, for me to do that in iOS (and possibly Android) is to build those in native land.
- pjmlp 3mo ago
  Use this to test it out, https://whatpwacando.today/ https://whatpwacando.today/
  - EGreg 3mo ago
    Wait wait. How does PWA when I click "install to home screen" actually show me that rich preview screen, with instructions? That's crazy! Edit: I have been truly wowed today https://web.dev/learn/pwa/installation-prompt https://web.dev/learn/pwa/installation-prompt

TheSkyHasEyes 3mo ago

FTA > I can’t understand how we got to this place with “app culture” > Nobody here is talking about the fact that a significant number of users want apps, too. End users, for the most part don't know what they want. They take when makes sense to them. To end users apps are easy. To us, a URL is easy. > But the tech illiterati exist, and they love apps. Yup!! And we get sucked into this vortex at times. Good post btw.

40four 3mo ago

Okay I guess? So then you politely answer to them the “app” is their web browser of choice! Problem solved

j1elo 3mo ago

As not a web dev, out of curiosity: What would be the drawback or problem with showing a header or pop-up on mobile browsers, offering to install them as (web)app? Then using the PWA functionality of the browser to do it. I'm not a heavy user of those but the result of PWAs has always been an icon that's handled by the OS like if it was any other native app, and when opened it just behaves like the web browser in kiosk mode just for that website.

wlesieutre 3mo ago
Would be great, but at least on iOS the only way to add a PWA to your home screen is via the share menu. Apple would need to support that header pop-up to install the PWA and they won’t unless someone makes them.
Nursie 3mo ago
> What would be the drawback or problem with showing a header or pop-up on mobile browsers, offering to install them as (web)app? In this world, every single site now pops up asking to be installed. No thanks.

da_chicken 3mo ago

End users don't care about if it's an app or not. What they care about: - Does it do what I need it to - Can I access it easily - Is it easy to navigate - Does it work or is it buggy - Is it slow - Does it abuse notifications - Is it prompting me to log in all the time - Are there too many ads - Can I use it on any device I have - Does it complain about updating constantly I don't think any of those actually has to do with being a website. The problem is that web browsers and websites didn't get a not-stupid UI for phones faster than the phone vendors could funnel everyone into their walled garden. Remember "click here for mobile" and having to develop two web interfaces? And half the time functions would be missing on one side?

swishman 3mo ago
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading these comments. Apps are clearly better for end users. HTML and css is SUPER slow. It doesn't feel native, it doesn't feel good to use. You also get so many weird glitches with state refreshing, sessions being cleared, log in not persisting. Has anyone here actually used a PWA? You can feel that it's slow and clunky. Apps feel SO much better with the native UI, pre-downloaded, much faster etc.
- akoboldfrying 3mo ago
  I've found the most consistent indicator of overall app quality to be whether it is extremely small in size. An Android app under a megabyte in size is going to use the familiar, high-performance platform-native UI because it doesn't have room to do anything else. It is gonna do what it says on the tin and nothing else. It won't have ads. It won't phone home. Since it doesn't show ads and doesn't phone home, it's quite likely open source, meaning it quite likely has a GitHub project that I can look into if something goes wrong -- and because it's so tiny, I won't need to spend days trying to figure out how it works.
  - Rohansi 3mo ago
    Or, you know, it's small because it's just a WebView wrapping a website.

DANmode 3mo ago

Wrap the page in an app and publish to app store. Can someone explain why this isn’t obvious?

LAC-Tech 3mo ago

My PWA skills are rusty, but IIRC it's one click on Android to install web page as an "app" (ie it appears on the home screen like anything else), and it was about 3 in Safari - perhaps a onerous for B2C, but surely not for internal users. So you can easily make an "App" for normies, from a web page.

nektro 3mo ago

the benefit of apps is they don't break. websites update out from under you and the web expects browsers to always be evergreen

_carbyau_ 3mo ago
> the benefit of apps is they don't break What world do you live in? Apps are either enshittified with updates, or the content source the app was using is broken in similar ways to a normal website. The only way you avoid this are sideloaded non-networked apps - which are not the usual.
- nektro 3mo ago
  updating apps is optional is my point
  - _carbyau_ 3mo ago
    I agree with that point. The useful executable code is contained on your device rather than fetched from a website. No update means you can run that useful code forever. Not many apps are useful in that form though.

AussieWog93 3mo ago

The "uhm, ackshually" responses to this comment are insane.

solarized 3mo ago

> We take tech literacy for granted, because it's like a dozen levels down fundamental to our entire field. But the tech illiterati exist, and they love apps. LOL. Kindly do this prompt to any LLM : "critize this statement, or any logical fallacy inside" Try applying the same level of skepticism to your own statements before posting them on HN.

mvdtnz 3mo ago

> When I announced the update, the number of people who asked me variations of "how to get website on phone if website on computer" or requested I make the damn thing an app was outrageous. This level of technical illiteracy shouldn't be tolerated in the workplace in 2026. We all work on computers all day, there's simply no excuse for being incapable of basic computer operations. Upskill or get out.

deminature 3mo ago

I encountered something similar recently. I put a lot of effort into making a PWA mobile-optimized version of my product which is effective an app in a browser. And I was flooded by user feedback saying they simply would not use the product until there was an app available. There is little option but to create an app in this environment, or face disinterest from potential customers. And the internet is shockingly mobile-focused nowadays, 80-90% of traffic is coming from mobile devices. So not having an app is death for your business. Apple will also not approve a straight web browser in an app wrapper, there's a specific rule that disallows this, so you have to make some good faith effort to implement it natively or not be allowed on the App Store.

culi 3mo ago

so add a manifest.json and give them instructions on how to install a PWA

baranul 3mo ago

> Nobody here is talking about the fact that a significant number of users want apps, too. This is true, as it depends on the nature of what is being presented and if offline usability is preferred or doable. Everything as a website, can arguably be an equally bad fit for situations, as everything as an app. Flexibility and careful study is required.

palata 3mo ago

I came here to say that a significant number of developers want apps, too. Including me. For many reasons including performance. But the one I want to mention here is security, because it systematically gets missed by web people: End-to-end encryption fundamentally doesn't work in webpages. Because when you load a webpage, you have a 1:1 connection to the server which sends you the code you need to run. You have to trust that the server sends you the right code, every single time, and there is no practical way to verify it. The whole point of E2EE is that you don't trust the server, and with a webpage you fundamentally trust the server. That's completely incompatible. Let's compare the Signal mobile app and the ProtonMail website: - With Signal, you can audit the sources, compile them and run that. You know you are running the code you audited. You can trust someone else to audit the code, compile it and run it. Or you can just download it through the Play Store and know that tens (hundreds?) of millions of people did that too. If you download it through the Play Store, you can "verify" your app with someone else, making sure that Google didn't send you a modified version (which would have required Signal and Google to collude in the first place). You know when the app is updated. If it matters for your life, you can make sure you benefit from end-to-end encryption. - With ProtonMail, you load a website. Everytime you load it, the sources could change. When you enter your password, you enter it in that very code that the server just sent you. So the server could identify you, and just this one time, send you a different version of the code, just for you, that would leak your password to them. You don't have any way to pin a version of the website and compare it with others, and there is no need for Proton to collude with anyone else to do that (it's a lot easier when no collusion is needed). Again: end-to-end encryption fundamentally does not work with webpages.