5 ms·

Don't fall for the trap. The question isn't how we should technically force age verification on anybody. The question is why they're pushing it onto everyone. I

by gobip 3mo ago

Don't fall for the trap. The question isn't how we should technically force age verification on anybody. The question is why they're pushing it onto everyone. I did not consent to this, neither did you.

ilumanty 3mo ago
Yes, I said it before and I will say it again: We should invest our energy in the discussion whether to implement it and not already wonder how to implement it. Shifting this question benefits only those who want to force this upon us.
- tikkabhuna 3mo ago
  Doesn't the "how to implement" determine whether to implement it? A poor implementation shouldn't be done, but a good implementation could make it simpler for companies to verify the ages of users, limit information passed to companies, offer a quality of life improvement for users.
  - lstodd 3mo ago
    The question is -- why they even need to verify ages of users. This is not decided, and my take is that they do not.
    - snottynose 3mo ago
      It's funny, concomittant all this chest beating about representing open societies, democracies, unlike those creepy evil authoritarian states which we don't like, that the EC seems hell bent on proving we can have a police state _just_ as intrusive if not more than say: Russia. This is not how we were supposed to prove that we are better.
      - toasty228 3mo ago
        > as intrusive if not more than say: Russia. Ping me when people are physically tortured by police for facebook posts, because that's what happens there.
        LPisGood 3mo ago
        How about 30 years in prison for distributing zines?
        watwut 3mo ago
        USA is not member of EU
        undersuit 3mo ago
        Does it have to be your exact example? https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/10/un-experts-urge-germany-halt-criminalisation-and-police-violence-against https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/10/un-experts-u...
        synecdoche 3mo ago
        Many examples of prison for Facebook posts in the UK. Not bad enough?
        toasty228 3mo ago
        It's bad, just not "We ArE LiTeRaLlY RuSsIa". But I guess it's the logical conclusion of the last few decades of critical thinking erosion and people not being able to form any kind of nuanced opinion
    - toasty228 3mo ago
      I love how "they" wanting to know your age is a big conspiracy, but zuck &co hiring the best behavioral and addictions scientists to get yours kids into doomscrolling brain rot as soon as possible is a fact of life and we shouldn't do anything about it
      - leonvoss 3mo ago
        The solution is banning dark patterns at big tech companies, not banning privacy.
    - wobfan 3mo ago
      BUT DOESNT ANYONE HERE THINK OF THE CHILDREN
- toasty228 3mo ago
  And what do "they" want? It's not like they don't already know your age, name, ID number or your browsing history
  - ilumanty 3mo ago
    You will think twice before expressing your opinion in public. Since you seem unfamiliar with the following, I will leave this here for your perusal: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilling_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilling_effect - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument
jck86 3mo ago
But it is needed to protect the children. The politicians say so, so it has to be true. Being against this is very dangerous to our children and democracy. There is no alternative. Seriously, there is something tremendously wrong with governance when politicians keep changing the whole world around us, without us having any say in it at all. The threat this measure poses to the internet and society is significant, yet it is being pushed through without any substantial debate or push back. This just is not how decent and actual democracies should function. What messed up timeline is this?
- roundabout-host 3mo ago
  Children die from wrongly-prepared food, thus we should only allow people to eat at McDonald's from now on! /s
  - leonvoss 3mo ago
    When they run out of other rights to destroy, they will pipe videos of little girls crying from food poisoning into your e-verified telescreen during ChildSafe^TM viewing hours, and the result will be that you will get to choose between two state approved restaurants thereafter.
    - mrec 3mo ago
      Two? Since the Franchise Wars, all restaurants are Taco Bell.
- anal_reactor 3mo ago
  > Seriously, there is something tremendously wrong with governance when politicians keep changing the whole world around us, without us having any say in it at all. That's where you're wrong. Most people actually do agree with age verification. Just because a decision is stupid it doesn't mean it's undemocratic. Trump was elected democratically, twice. Brexit passed through a referendum.
  - spwa4 3mo ago
toasty228 3mo ago
> The question is why they're pushing it onto everyone. I did not consent to this, neither did you. The representatives elected by Europeans did though: 483 votes in favor, 92 against
- afandian 3mo ago
  I doubt those representatives gathered a sufficient mandate from their public given the huge consequence. I’m no conspiracy theorist, but it does seem that there’s an international influence outweighing democracy. Cui bono?
  - gambiting 3mo ago
    I think that's trying to see something that isn't there, just to try and make some sense out of things. The reality is much simpler - they are elected parlimentarians, same as any regional government, and they vote without much thought based on quick brief summary. System to protect the children? Sounds great, let's vote yes - anyone who doesn't is a pedo, right?
    - afandian 3mo ago
      I'm sure there was some passive agreement involved, and probably some "politician's syllogism" too. But the null hypothesis is that there is no new legislation to vote on. It must have come from somewhere!
afandian 3mo ago
There’s a huge amount of stuff that the EU does that no one consented to, or had a realistic democratic avenue to influence. I’m in the UK and very anti Brexit. But were we still in, I would have no idea how to influence what happens behind those closed doors at the European Commision. Granted the current UK Labour/ Conservative pact on these issues show they’re completely out of control. But I still theoretically know how I could influence policy.
- wobfan 3mo ago
  > But I still theoretically know how I could influence policy. I mean even in the EU there's theoretic ways to influence policy, it's just that the system is currently sabotaged and/or partly not strong enough to withstand politicians who want to actively work against it. Not being for or against UK or Brexit, but I don't think this is a EU problem. These kinds of problems exist in all European democracies, at least this is what it feels like currently.
- port11 3mo ago
  Theoretically, you vote for the Parliament, and they influence the Commission. The Parliament and Courts keep the Commission in check, although their… misguided rule of majority is bound to allow some nonsense to pass. Especially since the Commission is, in my view, made up of people that do NOT want what the citizens do. You could argue they represent the majority of their specific countries, but even that is stretching things a bit given how many people actually vote. So: the Parliament, the Courts (you can bring them issues), the European Citizens’ Initiative, and indirectly through your own country’s agencies (e.g. your local DPA). It’s not that different from the high levels of indirection and bureaucracy in most democracies, I think. (Not that I’m defending the EU, there’s plenty to attack.)
pluralmonad 3mo ago
I know this sounds bad, but when has consent mattered before? I agree with you wholeheartedly, but consent is simply not something these power structures value.
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
__MatrixMan__ 3mo ago
The halls of power are full of pedophiles. Why do you think they want to gather data on children?
undersuit 3mo ago
I and many others have been banned from Twitter for the last two weeks because of a new process[1]. I have to view all links in incognito tabs or hand over my biometric data to a trillionaire. Just don't use Twitter some may quip, well that would be a great group effort, but I can't do it alone. [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/Twitter/comments/1uk6a98/lets_confirm_you_are_a_human/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Twitter/comments/1uk6a98/lets_confi...
stubish 3mo ago
'They' are not pushing age verification onto everyone. 'We' are pushing it onto ourselves. People want this. It is popular all over the world. If 'they' are doing anything, it is subverting what people want into something else. Which is the worry here, as people asked for age verification but didn't ask to be locked into the mobile phone duopoly. The system people want for age verification could be implemented as Firefox plugin. If it requires these attestation services for binary blobs provided by the government, it includes features someone else wants.
Peaches4Rent 3mo ago
They want to protect the children so that they can take them to the island
GuB-42 3mo ago
Some people consent to it, and they have a voice too. If they win and you didn't also consider the technical solution, you will find yourself not only with a law you disagree with, but also with a terrible technical solution. So whatever you opinion is on the subject of forcing age verification, it is worth looking at the technical solution, especially if it is your domain of expertise.
- port11 3mo ago
  Bruce Schneier goes on about this A LOT, and you’re exactly on point. If the knowledgeable tech people don’t get into policy, it will become law drafted by lawyers and MBAs. Man, I wish I knew how to get into policy…

by gobip 3mo ago

ilumanty 3mo ago

Yes, I said it before and I will say it again: We should invest our energy in the discussion whether to implement it and not already wonder how to implement it. Shifting this question benefits only those who want to force this upon us.

tikkabhuna 3mo ago
Doesn't the "how to implement" determine whether to implement it? A poor implementation shouldn't be done, but a good implementation could make it simpler for companies to verify the ages of users, limit information passed to companies, offer a quality of life improvement for users.
- lstodd 3mo ago
  The question is -- why they even need to verify ages of users. This is not decided, and my take is that they do not.
  - snottynose 3mo ago
    It's funny, concomittant all this chest beating about representing open societies, democracies, unlike those creepy evil authoritarian states which we don't like, that the EC seems hell bent on proving we can have a police state _just_ as intrusive if not more than say: Russia. This is not how we were supposed to prove that we are better.
    - toasty228 3mo ago
      > as intrusive if not more than say: Russia. Ping me when people are physically tortured by police for facebook posts, because that's what happens there.
      - LPisGood 3mo ago
        How about 30 years in prison for distributing zines?
        watwut 3mo ago
        USA is not member of EU
      - undersuit 3mo ago
        Does it have to be your exact example? https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/10/un-experts-urge-germany-halt-criminalisation-and-police-violence-against https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/10/un-experts-u...
      - synecdoche 3mo ago
        Many examples of prison for Facebook posts in the UK. Not bad enough?
        toasty228 3mo ago
        It's bad, just not "We ArE LiTeRaLlY RuSsIa". But I guess it's the logical conclusion of the last few decades of critical thinking erosion and people not being able to form any kind of nuanced opinion
  - toasty228 3mo ago
    I love how "they" wanting to know your age is a big conspiracy, but zuck &co hiring the best behavioral and addictions scientists to get yours kids into doomscrolling brain rot as soon as possible is a fact of life and we shouldn't do anything about it
    - leonvoss 3mo ago
      The solution is banning dark patterns at big tech companies, not banning privacy.
  - wobfan 3mo ago
    BUT DOESNT ANYONE HERE THINK OF THE CHILDREN
toasty228 3mo ago
And what do "they" want? It's not like they don't already know your age, name, ID number or your browsing history
- ilumanty 3mo ago
  You will think twice before expressing your opinion in public. Since you seem unfamiliar with the following, I will leave this here for your perusal: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilling_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilling_effect - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument

jck86 3mo ago

But it is needed to protect the children. The politicians say so, so it has to be true. Being against this is very dangerous to our children and democracy. There is no alternative. Seriously, there is something tremendously wrong with governance when politicians keep changing the whole world around us, without us having any say in it at all. The threat this measure poses to the internet and society is significant, yet it is being pushed through without any substantial debate or push back. This just is not how decent and actual democracies should function. What messed up timeline is this?

roundabout-host 3mo ago
Children die from wrongly-prepared food, thus we should only allow people to eat at McDonald's from now on! /s
- leonvoss 3mo ago
  When they run out of other rights to destroy, they will pipe videos of little girls crying from food poisoning into your e-verified telescreen during ChildSafe^TM viewing hours, and the result will be that you will get to choose between two state approved restaurants thereafter.
  - mrec 3mo ago
    Two? Since the Franchise Wars, all restaurants are Taco Bell.
anal_reactor 3mo ago
> Seriously, there is something tremendously wrong with governance when politicians keep changing the whole world around us, without us having any say in it at all. That's where you're wrong. Most people actually do agree with age verification. Just because a decision is stupid it doesn't mean it's undemocratic. Trump was elected democratically, twice. Brexit passed through a referendum.
- spwa4 3mo ago

toasty228 3mo ago

> The question is why they're pushing it onto everyone. I did not consent to this, neither did you. The representatives elected by Europeans did though: 483 votes in favor, 92 against

afandian 3mo ago
I doubt those representatives gathered a sufficient mandate from their public given the huge consequence. I’m no conspiracy theorist, but it does seem that there’s an international influence outweighing democracy. Cui bono?
- gambiting 3mo ago
  I think that's trying to see something that isn't there, just to try and make some sense out of things. The reality is much simpler - they are elected parlimentarians, same as any regional government, and they vote without much thought based on quick brief summary. System to protect the children? Sounds great, let's vote yes - anyone who doesn't is a pedo, right?
  - afandian 3mo ago
    I'm sure there was some passive agreement involved, and probably some "politician's syllogism" too. But the null hypothesis is that there is no new legislation to vote on. It must have come from somewhere!

afandian 3mo ago

There’s a huge amount of stuff that the EU does that no one consented to, or had a realistic democratic avenue to influence. I’m in the UK and very anti Brexit. But were we still in, I would have no idea how to influence what happens behind those closed doors at the European Commision. Granted the current UK Labour/ Conservative pact on these issues show they’re completely out of control. But I still theoretically know how I could influence policy.

wobfan 3mo ago
> But I still theoretically know how I could influence policy. I mean even in the EU there's theoretic ways to influence policy, it's just that the system is currently sabotaged and/or partly not strong enough to withstand politicians who want to actively work against it. Not being for or against UK or Brexit, but I don't think this is a EU problem. These kinds of problems exist in all European democracies, at least this is what it feels like currently.
port11 3mo ago
Theoretically, you vote for the Parliament, and they influence the Commission. The Parliament and Courts keep the Commission in check, although their… misguided rule of majority is bound to allow some nonsense to pass. Especially since the Commission is, in my view, made up of people that do NOT want what the citizens do. You could argue they represent the majority of their specific countries, but even that is stretching things a bit given how many people actually vote. So: the Parliament, the Courts (you can bring them issues), the European Citizens’ Initiative, and indirectly through your own country’s agencies (e.g. your local DPA). It’s not that different from the high levels of indirection and bureaucracy in most democracies, I think. (Not that I’m defending the EU, there’s plenty to attack.)

pluralmonad 3mo ago

I know this sounds bad, but when has consent mattered before? I agree with you wholeheartedly, but consent is simply not something these power structures value.

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]

__MatrixMan__ 3mo ago

The halls of power are full of pedophiles. Why do you think they want to gather data on children?

undersuit 3mo ago

I and many others have been banned from Twitter for the last two weeks because of a new process[1]. I have to view all links in incognito tabs or hand over my biometric data to a trillionaire. Just don't use Twitter some may quip, well that would be a great group effort, but I can't do it alone. [1] https://old.reddit.com/r/Twitter/comments/1uk6a98/lets_confirm_you_are_a_human/ https://old.reddit.com/r/Twitter/comments/1uk6a98/lets_confi...

stubish 3mo ago

'They' are not pushing age verification onto everyone. 'We' are pushing it onto ourselves. People want this. It is popular all over the world. If 'they' are doing anything, it is subverting what people want into something else. Which is the worry here, as people asked for age verification but didn't ask to be locked into the mobile phone duopoly. The system people want for age verification could be implemented as Firefox plugin. If it requires these attestation services for binary blobs provided by the government, it includes features someone else wants.

Peaches4Rent 3mo ago

They want to protect the children so that they can take them to the island

GuB-42 3mo ago

Some people consent to it, and they have a voice too. If they win and you didn't also consider the technical solution, you will find yourself not only with a law you disagree with, but also with a terrible technical solution. So whatever you opinion is on the subject of forcing age verification, it is worth looking at the technical solution, especially if it is your domain of expertise.

port11 3mo ago
Bruce Schneier goes on about this A LOT, and you’re exactly on point. If the knowledgeable tech people don’t get into policy, it will become law drafted by lawyers and MBAs. Man, I wish I knew how to get into policy…