4 ms·

Photovoltaics are still running after a year under Swiss trains

22 points by manarth 3mo ago

casey2 3mo ago
Could they at least get a well-lit picture of panels that aren't covered in dirt and rocks? This is a lying eyes situation now. Depressing.
- NetMageSCW 3mo ago
  Like the picture in the article?
manarth 3mo ago
Pilot to place solar panels in the space between train tracks shown to be a success.
dbrgn 3mo ago
A lot of people doubted this could work. After all, railway tracks are a dusty, hot environment with tons of vibrations that could cause microcracks. I was in the doubter team too, but if this really worked out, that's great news. Congrats to the project team! Will be interesting to see if this scales well.
- kansface 3mo ago
  The panels probably need 5-8 years in that location to be energy positive. A year is great, but doesn’t prove much.
- pseudohadamard 3mo ago
  And if you simply install them in the empty space next to the tracks, where there's no vibration or other problems and you can angle them optimally for solar capture, you get the same benefits without having to custom manufacture panels that are extra-tough to deal with the fact that you've installed them in one of the worst possible places to put panels. They never mention what those armour-plated panels cost, what effect they have on track maintenance, and what their efficiency is due to suboptimal placing compared to next to the track at the right angle. Heck, put in bifacials and you can swap out existing noise barriers for power-generating ones. It's a case of "given enough thrust, pigs can indeed fly" rather than an actually useful idea.
JR1427 3mo ago
What are the advantages to putting them between the rails, where you need trains to stop running in order to access them? If it's about using wasted land, why not put them beside the rails, which would make access easier? There is usually a generous margin beside the tracks. This would also allow bigger panels to be used.
- alnwlsn 3mo ago
  I think the idea is that you can make a machine that goes on the rails and installs them automatically. So you don't need to haul a bunch of equipment on site, you just drive one special train down the track once.
  - Scoundreller 3mo ago
    Same for washing the panels. Could even work a system onto already-running trains. And the RightOfWay is already maintained to keep thin grasses & trees away that may fall on a line. Often the line is already built-up for flood prevention. In some (most? All?) countries, the railway has free reign and doesn’t need to answer to city/municipal/states/provinces for approvals on anything. A main “downside” is the poor production in winter/mornings/evenings on ground-parallel panels. e.g. France has huge solar capacity, they tend to be heavy electricity exporters in summer and heavy importers in winter. One of their new tariffs offers discounts except for 22 days in winter. https://www.rte-france.com/en/data-publications/eco2mix/power-generation-energy-source# https://www.rte-france.com/en/data-publications/eco2mix/powe... 0 degree panels produce the most when electricity is valued the least. Output should be measured in currency, not MWh.
- foxyv 3mo ago
  I think the biggest advantage rails have is that they are electrified and are accessible by rail based maintenance vehicles. Panels have gotten so inexpensive that the major cost is usually the mounting, installation, and electrical access. Some of that is mitigated by installing on railways. You can automate the installation process and connect into the tram lines.
- red-iron-pine 3mo ago
cjbenedikt 3mo ago
I often wonder about some of the more critical comments on projects like this. It should be welcomed by everybody that someone even tries. If it doesn't work - well at least we know. If it does - even better. Anyone who has ever started a hardware company like this group would know who challenging this can be no matter what. But to do that in such a highly regulated environment? Methinks it is very impressive that they got that far and hopefully will go further!
WalterGR 3mo ago
Related: "Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland" (euronews.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48794704 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48794704 112 points | 8 days ago | 145 comments

22 points by manarth 3mo ago

Could they at least get a well-lit picture of panels that aren't covered in dirt and rocks? This is a lying eyes situation now. Depressing.

NetMageSCW 3mo ago
Like the picture in the article?

manarth 3mo ago

Pilot to place solar panels in the space between train tracks shown to be a success.

dbrgn 3mo ago

A lot of people doubted this could work. After all, railway tracks are a dusty, hot environment with tons of vibrations that could cause microcracks. I was in the doubter team too, but if this really worked out, that's great news. Congrats to the project team! Will be interesting to see if this scales well.

kansface 3mo ago
The panels probably need 5-8 years in that location to be energy positive. A year is great, but doesn’t prove much.
pseudohadamard 3mo ago
And if you simply install them in the empty space next to the tracks, where there's no vibration or other problems and you can angle them optimally for solar capture, you get the same benefits without having to custom manufacture panels that are extra-tough to deal with the fact that you've installed them in one of the worst possible places to put panels. They never mention what those armour-plated panels cost, what effect they have on track maintenance, and what their efficiency is due to suboptimal placing compared to next to the track at the right angle. Heck, put in bifacials and you can swap out existing noise barriers for power-generating ones. It's a case of "given enough thrust, pigs can indeed fly" rather than an actually useful idea.

JR1427 3mo ago

What are the advantages to putting them between the rails, where you need trains to stop running in order to access them? If it's about using wasted land, why not put them beside the rails, which would make access easier? There is usually a generous margin beside the tracks. This would also allow bigger panels to be used.

alnwlsn 3mo ago
I think the idea is that you can make a machine that goes on the rails and installs them automatically. So you don't need to haul a bunch of equipment on site, you just drive one special train down the track once.
- Scoundreller 3mo ago
  Same for washing the panels. Could even work a system onto already-running trains. And the RightOfWay is already maintained to keep thin grasses & trees away that may fall on a line. Often the line is already built-up for flood prevention. In some (most? All?) countries, the railway has free reign and doesn’t need to answer to city/municipal/states/provinces for approvals on anything. A main “downside” is the poor production in winter/mornings/evenings on ground-parallel panels. e.g. France has huge solar capacity, they tend to be heavy electricity exporters in summer and heavy importers in winter. One of their new tariffs offers discounts except for 22 days in winter. https://www.rte-france.com/en/data-publications/eco2mix/power-generation-energy-source# https://www.rte-france.com/en/data-publications/eco2mix/powe... 0 degree panels produce the most when electricity is valued the least. Output should be measured in currency, not MWh.
foxyv 3mo ago
I think the biggest advantage rails have is that they are electrified and are accessible by rail based maintenance vehicles. Panels have gotten so inexpensive that the major cost is usually the mounting, installation, and electrical access. Some of that is mitigated by installing on railways. You can automate the installation process and connect into the tram lines.
red-iron-pine 3mo ago

cjbenedikt 3mo ago

I often wonder about some of the more critical comments on projects like this. It should be welcomed by everybody that someone even tries. If it doesn't work - well at least we know. If it does - even better. Anyone who has ever started a hardware company like this group would know who challenging this can be no matter what. But to do that in such a highly regulated environment? Methinks it is very impressive that they got that far and hopefully will go further!

WalterGR 3mo ago

Related: "Solar rail could become common in Europe after successful trial in Switzerland" (euronews.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48794704 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48794704 112 points | 8 days ago | 145 comments