4 ms·

American AI labs -> industrial chinese scaping -> opensource LLM -> boko haram It's a supply chain the US actually can easily control with KYC.

throwaway27448 3mo ago
I think the chinese are doing just fine by themselves at this point
- johnsmith1840 3mo ago
  As the largest AI scappers on the planet.. sure They don't have nearly enough compute to be competitive on pretraining and distillation is exponentially cheaper. It's literally the same tactic they do in every industry. Steal top IP, gov funding, ban the company they stole from domestically while driving cost to zero, try to kill the original IP creators. They are actively in the process of doing this with Tesla as we speak. And are in the phase of pushing them out domestically and trying to destroy tesla marketshare globally. They have obvious skills and add a lot of value while doing this but US could stop all of this by simply stopping their supply.
  - throwaway27448 3mo ago
    > Steal It's competition, buddy. If you don't think we got big the same way you're nuts. And anyone who is trying to kill tesla has my money. Anyway, I don't think there's much worth stealing at the moment. Chinese models provide much better value than any american firm. > but US could stop all of this by simply stopping their supply. A) good luck trying to prevent access to a service and b) this is obvious cope. Of course the chinese can compete; there's no american magic beyond "having loads of money and nearby universities", which china has too.
    - hoppp 3mo ago
      Anthropic/OpenAI should have full control over who accesses their service since it's basically an API they provide. Chinese models are great, nobody says otherwise but many of the publicly available ones are distilled and not trained from scratch. Adding KYC would crack down on distilling because they use thousands of burner accounts to do it and now those accounts would need a face to verify.
      - johnsmith1840 3mo ago
        If you think any model coming out of china is not containing as much stolen data as humanly possible from the actual innovators u crazy. Using a chinese model is like watching pirated films. If you actually support the people who make the thing you love then you don't do that. We then get hit with chinese sponsored propoganda of "the big labs stole artist images to begin with so they can't complain" and act like LLMs didn't create an entire new category of thing. So much propaganda so many lies and dishonesty because at the end of the day China knows it's not innovative enough to compete. It hopes to hobble our abilities while they frantically steal to catch up. But the truth is that if China ever gets a lead over US in any innovation they will instantly kill any openess. If chinese AI ever passes US it's likely you'll never touch that model ever. Just like the russians they use our own culture against us and it's absurd people fall for it.
        throwaway27448 3mo ago
        Is there a commercial model out there now that wasn't trained on stolen data? Let's stop refering to these ghouls as "innovators": they're glorified bootleggers
    - johnsmith1840 3mo ago
      It's... the opposite of competition? A foreign government state sponsoring IP theft and manipulating markets for unfair competition. Here's a 1:1 example if the USA did exactly the same thing. 1. CIA and Ford work together to steal mercedes IP 2. Gov gives money to Ford to build the same car half the price 3. Throw as many roadblocks at mercedes regulation wise as possible until it is not financially viable to sell in US anymore. 4. Sell the same car back to germany at half the cost they have it because mercedes isn't state sponsored 5. Crush mercedes who created the better car to begin with. That's not only dishonest but actually harmful for innovation and economic growth. China has done this Sooooo many times it's absurd.
  - ValentineC 3mo ago
    > They are actively in the process of doing this with Tesla as we speak. And are in the phase of pushing them out domestically and trying to destroy tesla marketshare globally. What did China do to Tesla? Aren't the EV firms there more innovative and successful because of the China domestic push towards EV and government incentives around the world?
    - johnsmith1840 3mo ago
      Steal their IP and now trying to destroy them domestic and abroad
  - CamperBob2 3mo ago
    Steal top IP LOL. How do you thin... On second thought, I'm about to feed a troll, and we're not supposed to do that here.
    - johnsmith1840 3mo ago
      Go learn yourself the history of nuclear reactors in china
      - CamperBob2 3mo ago
        Why? More power to them (literally). I'd rather they built nuclear plants than yet another coal plant whose emissions will wind up over here, across the Pacific.
        johnsmith1840 3mo ago
        Call me a troll then refuse to learn about the topic you comment on.
        CamperBob2 3mo ago
        The topic I commented on was LLMs. What that has to do with Chinese nuclear reactors, I'll have to leave to you to explain.
        johnsmith1840 3mo ago
        Meow

throwaway27448 3mo ago

I think the chinese are doing just fine by themselves at this point

johnsmith1840 3mo ago
As the largest AI scappers on the planet.. sure They don't have nearly enough compute to be competitive on pretraining and distillation is exponentially cheaper. It's literally the same tactic they do in every industry. Steal top IP, gov funding, ban the company they stole from domestically while driving cost to zero, try to kill the original IP creators. They are actively in the process of doing this with Tesla as we speak. And are in the phase of pushing them out domestically and trying to destroy tesla marketshare globally. They have obvious skills and add a lot of value while doing this but US could stop all of this by simply stopping their supply.
- throwaway27448 3mo ago
  > Steal It's competition, buddy. If you don't think we got big the same way you're nuts. And anyone who is trying to kill tesla has my money. Anyway, I don't think there's much worth stealing at the moment. Chinese models provide much better value than any american firm. > but US could stop all of this by simply stopping their supply. A) good luck trying to prevent access to a service and b) this is obvious cope. Of course the chinese can compete; there's no american magic beyond "having loads of money and nearby universities", which china has too.
  - hoppp 3mo ago
    Anthropic/OpenAI should have full control over who accesses their service since it's basically an API they provide. Chinese models are great, nobody says otherwise but many of the publicly available ones are distilled and not trained from scratch. Adding KYC would crack down on distilling because they use thousands of burner accounts to do it and now those accounts would need a face to verify.
    - johnsmith1840 3mo ago
      If you think any model coming out of china is not containing as much stolen data as humanly possible from the actual innovators u crazy. Using a chinese model is like watching pirated films. If you actually support the people who make the thing you love then you don't do that. We then get hit with chinese sponsored propoganda of "the big labs stole artist images to begin with so they can't complain" and act like LLMs didn't create an entire new category of thing. So much propaganda so many lies and dishonesty because at the end of the day China knows it's not innovative enough to compete. It hopes to hobble our abilities while they frantically steal to catch up. But the truth is that if China ever gets a lead over US in any innovation they will instantly kill any openess. If chinese AI ever passes US it's likely you'll never touch that model ever. Just like the russians they use our own culture against us and it's absurd people fall for it.
      - throwaway27448 3mo ago
        Is there a commercial model out there now that wasn't trained on stolen data? Let's stop refering to these ghouls as "innovators": they're glorified bootleggers
  - johnsmith1840 3mo ago
    It's... the opposite of competition? A foreign government state sponsoring IP theft and manipulating markets for unfair competition. Here's a 1:1 example if the USA did exactly the same thing. 1. CIA and Ford work together to steal mercedes IP 2. Gov gives money to Ford to build the same car half the price 3. Throw as many roadblocks at mercedes regulation wise as possible until it is not financially viable to sell in US anymore. 4. Sell the same car back to germany at half the cost they have it because mercedes isn't state sponsored 5. Crush mercedes who created the better car to begin with. That's not only dishonest but actually harmful for innovation and economic growth. China has done this Sooooo many times it's absurd.
- ValentineC 3mo ago
  > They are actively in the process of doing this with Tesla as we speak. And are in the phase of pushing them out domestically and trying to destroy tesla marketshare globally. What did China do to Tesla? Aren't the EV firms there more innovative and successful because of the China domestic push towards EV and government incentives around the world?
  - johnsmith1840 3mo ago
    Steal their IP and now trying to destroy them domestic and abroad
- CamperBob2 3mo ago
  Steal top IP LOL. How do you thin... On second thought, I'm about to feed a troll, and we're not supposed to do that here.
  - johnsmith1840 3mo ago
    Go learn yourself the history of nuclear reactors in china
    - CamperBob2 3mo ago
      Why? More power to them (literally). I'd rather they built nuclear plants than yet another coal plant whose emissions will wind up over here, across the Pacific.
      - johnsmith1840 3mo ago
        Call me a troll then refuse to learn about the topic you comment on.
        CamperBob2 3mo ago
        The topic I commented on was LLMs. What that has to do with Chinese nuclear reactors, I'll have to leave to you to explain.
        johnsmith1840 3mo ago
        Meow