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I just kinda skimmed through it, so it detects drones in sky? Am I understanding this correctly? That might have some defense application considering what's goi

I just kinda skimmed through it, so it detects drones in sky? Am I understanding this correctly? That might have some defense application considering what's going on in Eastern Europe right now.

PaulHoule 3mo ago
Very much so. I had a friend who'd just gotten out of EE school as a non-traditional student who was working for a company that was making radars for tracking drones maybe five years before the 2022 Russian invasion. That was an active system, similar in concept to the radars used in air defense system just scaled down and faster acting. The one in this article is a passive system that sees the transmitter on the drone. The comm link is the obvious weak spot on the drone as it can be detected and jammed, it is fairly inevitable that lethal attack drones that work anonymously will be widespread as a result.
- embedding-shape 3mo ago
  > that sees the transmitter on the drone. The comm link is the obvious weak spot on the drone Isn't most drones run by fiber optic nowadays around the front-lines though? Can't really jam those, but maybe still detect it somehow?
  - RealityVoid 3mo ago
    According to CivDiv's channel about 70% of the drones used are still RC FPV drones. They are cheaper longer range and have a slightly simpler supply chain. Fiber optic cable prices have exploded because of the war.
    - creaturemachine 3mo ago
      If you count recon and droppers that can use distance to avoid jamming, sure. One-way applications are increasingly fibre.
      - RealityVoid 3mo ago
        Can you back this up with any authoritative sources?
    - clouedoc 3mo ago
      glad to see someone giving a source. a lot of people here heard of fiber optic drones and decided that now 100% of drones in Ukraine are using those
TrackerFF 3mo ago
It detects drones which send out RF signals at the same frequency band. Most drones used in Ukraine are tethered with thin optical wire exactly because one of the first anti-drone measures was to simply jam them at the frequencies the operators used. There are some more advanced anti-drone measures at work: Like blasting them with directed high-energy microwaves to destroy the circuits.
- euroderf 3mo ago
  Frequency hopping is not THAT difficult.
  - squarefoot 3mo ago
    Brute force wide band jamming would be easy too and would make hopping ineffective. Unless drones use self tuning antennas to overcome losses, they can't hop too far away from the antenna resonance frequency, which makes jammers job easier.
    - varjag 3mo ago
      Jamming broadband is a lot more energy expense than frequency hopping. Orders of magnitude.
      - thomashabets2 3mo ago
        But the jammer can be plugged in to the grid or a diesel generator. Being on the ground without flight requirements grants access to such resources.
        fer 3mo ago
        But such a jammer is expensive and a magnet for HARMs that only need that RF signature as guidance.
        3mo ago
shakow 3mo ago
> That might have some defense application considering what's going on in Eastern Europe right now. This is a bog-standard phased-array RDF calibrated for WiFi freqs; that stuff is already in every single defense show. Also, that's why there's jamming everywhere (to blind that kind of things) and why many UAVs are now tethered to optical fibers instead of being RF-controlled.
- IshKebab 3mo ago
  Yeah I think it is at every defense show, but that doesn't mean it makes it to the front lines. Defense show = super expensive. This is cheap.
  - shakow 3mo ago
    > Defense show = super expensive Really depends; there you can see both Lockmart exhibiting multi-billions project, and 150m after some Serbian company selling jet engines for UAVs for a couple hundreds.
  - thomashabets2 3mo ago
    Homing in on sources of electromagnetic transmissions has been a thing since at least the BV246 in 1943. The first phased array systems date back to 1905. We have had some time to productionize this. Hell, the "PA" in "PATRIOT missile" stands for "Phased Array".
    - IshKebab 3mo ago
      I'm not saying it's new technology. The patriot missile costs $4m each. None of the drones Ukraine is using have this tech. The new thing is that it's available for purchase for a reasonable price.
      - shakow 3mo ago
        Why would they put phased arrays on UAVs? They are typically using beam-forming antennas + cheap gimbals for the same purpose. Phased arrays are nice when you want to scan a large angular surface very fast; when it comes down to optimizing RF radiation toward your ground station, a gimbal is cheaper, simpler, and works fine.

I just kinda skimmed through it, so it detects drones in sky? Am I understanding this correctly? That might have some defense application considering what's going on in Eastern Europe right now.

PaulHoule 3mo ago

Very much so. I had a friend who'd just gotten out of EE school as a non-traditional student who was working for a company that was making radars for tracking drones maybe five years before the 2022 Russian invasion. That was an active system, similar in concept to the radars used in air defense system just scaled down and faster acting. The one in this article is a passive system that sees the transmitter on the drone. The comm link is the obvious weak spot on the drone as it can be detected and jammed, it is fairly inevitable that lethal attack drones that work anonymously will be widespread as a result.

embedding-shape 3mo ago
> that sees the transmitter on the drone. The comm link is the obvious weak spot on the drone Isn't most drones run by fiber optic nowadays around the front-lines though? Can't really jam those, but maybe still detect it somehow?
- RealityVoid 3mo ago
  According to CivDiv's channel about 70% of the drones used are still RC FPV drones. They are cheaper longer range and have a slightly simpler supply chain. Fiber optic cable prices have exploded because of the war.
  - creaturemachine 3mo ago
    If you count recon and droppers that can use distance to avoid jamming, sure. One-way applications are increasingly fibre.
    - RealityVoid 3mo ago
      Can you back this up with any authoritative sources?
  - clouedoc 3mo ago
    glad to see someone giving a source. a lot of people here heard of fiber optic drones and decided that now 100% of drones in Ukraine are using those

TrackerFF 3mo ago

It detects drones which send out RF signals at the same frequency band. Most drones used in Ukraine are tethered with thin optical wire exactly because one of the first anti-drone measures was to simply jam them at the frequencies the operators used. There are some more advanced anti-drone measures at work: Like blasting them with directed high-energy microwaves to destroy the circuits.

euroderf 3mo ago
Frequency hopping is not THAT difficult.
- squarefoot 3mo ago
  Brute force wide band jamming would be easy too and would make hopping ineffective. Unless drones use self tuning antennas to overcome losses, they can't hop too far away from the antenna resonance frequency, which makes jammers job easier.
  - varjag 3mo ago
    Jamming broadband is a lot more energy expense than frequency hopping. Orders of magnitude.
    - thomashabets2 3mo ago
      But the jammer can be plugged in to the grid or a diesel generator. Being on the ground without flight requirements grants access to such resources.
      - fer 3mo ago
        But such a jammer is expensive and a magnet for HARMs that only need that RF signature as guidance.
        3mo ago

shakow 3mo ago

> That might have some defense application considering what's going on in Eastern Europe right now. This is a bog-standard phased-array RDF calibrated for WiFi freqs; that stuff is already in every single defense show. Also, that's why there's jamming everywhere (to blind that kind of things) and why many UAVs are now tethered to optical fibers instead of being RF-controlled.

IshKebab 3mo ago
Yeah I think it is at every defense show, but that doesn't mean it makes it to the front lines. Defense show = super expensive. This is cheap.
- shakow 3mo ago
  > Defense show = super expensive Really depends; there you can see both Lockmart exhibiting multi-billions project, and 150m after some Serbian company selling jet engines for UAVs for a couple hundreds.
- thomashabets2 3mo ago
  Homing in on sources of electromagnetic transmissions has been a thing since at least the BV246 in 1943. The first phased array systems date back to 1905. We have had some time to productionize this. Hell, the "PA" in "PATRIOT missile" stands for "Phased Array".
  - IshKebab 3mo ago
    I'm not saying it's new technology. The patriot missile costs $4m each. None of the drones Ukraine is using have this tech. The new thing is that it's available for purchase for a reasonable price.
    - shakow 3mo ago
      Why would they put phased arrays on UAVs? They are typically using beam-forming antennas + cheap gimbals for the same purpose. Phased arrays are nice when you want to scan a large angular surface very fast; when it comes down to optimizing RF radiation toward your ground station, a gimbal is cheaper, simpler, and works fine.