6 ms·
I don't think the question is "Should ambulances be a thing?" though. It's a question of "Should someone in a situation where they need an ambulance have to bal
by onion2k 3mo ago
I don't think the question is "Should ambulances be a thing?" though. It's a question of "Should someone in a situation where they need an ambulance have to balance the potentially life-threatening impact of saying no versus the potentially financially ruinous impact of saying yes?"
The (fairly obvious) answer to that no one should be in that situation. It's horrible. Society should find a better way to pay for ambulances. Most of the world has accepted that some system to spread the cost among everyone is better than putting people in that situation.
- grogenaut 3mo agoIs this the common cost or is this an outlier blog story that hit it off. Talk real data to me. I don't get excited about any individual anecdote (unless it's me personally of course). No people shouldn't be bankrupted for a short cab ride that's not needed. I'm not arguing that.
- ChrisMarshallNY 3mo agoIt’s pretty common. I know that John Oliver is a bit of a “lightning rod,” for many folks, but he (or his staff, really) does his homework. He did a segment on it, some time ago: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ezv8sdTLxKo https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ezv8sdTLxKo
- master_crab 3mo agoHe’s a lightning rod only because some people get unnecessarily triggered by facts that don’t fit their world view.
- mananaysiempre 3mo agoThere’s a thin line between satire, which can convince, and sneering, which can only turn off. John Oliver, unfortunately, does end up on the wrong side of it from time to time, and can (together with his core audience) be something of a bully when he does. I’d also be careful about his facts: they’re usually well-researched, but by the nature of the format he only ever presents those which fit his argument, and that’s just not good epistemology. I can think of a few times when the show made me feel safer about my beliefs than I should have been feeling.
- ajuc 3mo agoThe time for this debate was 100 years ago. Now only people who can't be convinced aren't convinced, so there's no point convincing. So why not make fun of them? There's no downside.
- gruez 3mo ago>So why not make fun of them? There's no downside. ...except the populist right backlash, triggered in part by their resentment at coastal "elites" (think yuppies, not people who fly to davos annually) sneering at them.
- bjustin 3mo agoThe "coastal elites" they resent are made up by conservative media. No behavior changes by the yuppies can affect the ever-increasing resentment people feel in response to this sneering bully, because the bully is made up and the tendency of RW media to use ever-more-dire portrayals of supposed societal ills. As an aside, I think the culture which produces this result is related to people in the US always thinking crime is increasing, regardless of actual crime trends.
- ajuc 3mo agoThey will do that anyway. No amount of pandering will change their minds.
- refurb 3mo agoHe’s a comedian that some people take too seriously. You’re not supposed to shape your political views from entertainment.
- lazide 3mo agoWell over a decade ago, it was $6500 for a couple mile ride to the nearest hospital, no emergency medical care necessary (just supervision). This was in the Bay Area, in California. I can’t imagine it’s gotten cheaper.
- WJW 3mo agoThat's wild. According to the website of my local ambulance organisation, a full on ambulance ride with all medical supervision etc runs between 400 and 900 euros. Typically this would be reimbursed by the (mandatory in this country) health insurance. This is in a large city in western Europe, I would expect it's cheaper in places with lower cost of living. EDIT: their own website states "If the ambulance only comes and stabilizes you on the spot but you don’t need to be transported, there are no costs." https://ambulanceamsterdam.nl/information-in-english/ https://ambulanceamsterdam.nl/information-in-english/
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- culopatin 3mo agoYeah my mom got billed 9k a few months ago from SFO to one of the south sf hospitals. Neck brace and supervision was all that was needed. Basically an expensive uber ride.
- Esophagus4 3mo agoHe covered that in the article fairly thoroughly. Did you read it? The anecdote illustrates the issue then he dives into the analysis.
- otherme123 3mo ago> Society should find a better way to pay for ambulances Society has this figured out, at least a decent solution that works until we find a perfect one. Only the US society seems to be unable to find a solution.
- wisty 3mo agoAnd the US also pays a TON of tax dollars to a broken, overregulated system. IIRC if you look at the cost of Medicaide, Medicare, VA, and other federal and state spending it's the same as most other countries per capita or as a percent of GDP. The US taxpayer pays about as much as Canadians to fund their public system, then pays the same amount again for private cover since it's not universal. No I'm not making a typo. Medicare, Medicaide, and the US system is such a rip off that per capita Americans are paying similar tax dollars to their joke of a public system. But no one wants to fix it. US doctors are overpaid. US nurses are over paid. Dug companies. Admin. Lawyers. Everyone who makes the system work, and everyone who makes the system a mess are paid a fortune for it.
- master-lincoln 3mo agoThat's what a government would be for. You vote neo-liberal, you get it... (I consider both the US democrats and republicans neo-liberal)
- bestouff 3mo agoI think only the US consider the US Democrats as leftists.
- natebc 3mo agoOnly the rightists do and among them really only the loud redfaced ones.
- philipallstar 3mo ago[flagged]
- fuckyah 3mo ago[flagged]
- NamTaf 3mo ago"Just don't be poor!" I feel like you have missed the entire point of the article.
- culopatin 3mo agoEven with insurance all these companies will fight with each other to find excuses to say it’s not their responsibility and send you letters non stop saying things like “oh you paid for the van, I’m just the nurse, it’s separate” or “oh yeah you paid for the hallway in the hospital but the ct scan person is a contractor, you owe them 3k”. System could not be more broken
- NoMoreNicksLeft 3mo ago[flagged]
- onion2k 3mo agoYour argument leads me to assume you think everything that causes to someone need an ambulance is the result of their choices. Victim of a violent crime? You shouldn't have left your house. Run over by someone else? You shouldn't have left your house. Caught an infectious disease? You shouldn't have left your house. Fell down the stairs? Why were you in your house!?! Don't you know how dangerous it is?!?
- tancop 3mo ago[dead]
- pjc50 3mo agoWe should go further with this and require troops to pay for their own medevac. /s
- pshirshov 3mo agoWell, if what I've read is true it's already sort of a practice in russian army.
- Der_Einzige 3mo agoGo ask SF troops what the PJs require from them if they get saved by a PJ (a branded tattoo on your ass). I’m sure plenty of those soldiers would rather pay some money for the evac instead of a lifelong ass tat.
- pshirshov 3mo agoWell, you don't know how rotten the industry is. Your moral social-darwinism just enriches a couple of suits, nothing more, instead of spreading the costs you could very well start by making sure the costs are not inflated. x2..x5 multiplier is always applied to any ambulance bill as far as I'm aware. I worked in that industry.
- 3mo ago
- newaccount670 3mo ago[flagged]
- OKRainbowKid 3mo agoSo in your eyes, the population of several western countries is (and has been for decades) dominated by complete morons, resulting in free or almost free ambulance rides? And what does the Democratic party have to do with all that? Your whole comment just seems like a thinly veiled and insulting political rant. Going by your account name, this seems to be a pattern.
- pebble 3mo agoSo people should be getting financially ruined to god-forbid prevent some abuse of the system? As long as there is no abuse everything else is hunky-dory?
- closewith 3mo ago> Only a complete moron would think the answer to this is no. If there's no personal cost to using an extremely expensive service, every one is going to use it regardless of whether it's actually necessary. It will quickly turn into a free taxi service for anyone who wants to go anywhere near a hospital. Okay, so why don't we see this behaviour more in other countries? In my jurisdiction, the incentives are actually weighted towards pushing people to ambulances, as there is a €100 fee for self-referral to ED which is waived if you're transported, but while there are time wasters and frequent flyers, the service is actually less abused than US ambulances under EMTALA.
- frenchman_in_ny 3mo agoI've been there before. I had a high deductible health plan, it was December & I hadn't used any of my premiums... I had a heart attack (I didn't know it at the time). And my mind went to "but my premium! I know, I'll walk myself to urgent care instead of taking an ambulance to the hospital"
- PearlRiver 3mo agoI remember this came up during COVID. The government was worried that homeless people and illegals would be afraid to report symptoms. GPs are specifically free and don't have to ask for papers or insurance to combat these health crises.