3 ms·

Hahaha non-deterministic accounting probably won’t fly well with the IRS

frereubu 4mo ago
That made me laugh, thanks. I remember talking to my accountant in the UK a long time ago when I was newly self-employed, asking if I could pass something off as a business expense that was sort-of-related, but I knew probably not really OK. Her reply has stuck with me ever since: "HMRC [the UK equivalent of the IRS] are interested in matters of fact, not interpretation."
- jimnotgym 4mo ago
  As an accountant at a large Corp, I can tell you that there are cases daily where two senior accountants argue over how to interpret accounting and tax rules, and often each agrees that the others interpretation is valid. I regularly see rulings from area specialists, and have to challenge them, only to be told, 'well in that case, you would be right' I sometimes ask an AI to comment, and usually their answer is couched is ifs and maybes, just like the humans. I often consult with auditors who tell me x is wrong, and they go away agreeing that y and z would be valid too, and x is also fine. There are often second order effects that need to be thought through. Good luck AI
  - ofjcihen 4mo ago
    This is the problem with the majority of AI push coming from devs. They look at something as complex as accounting and only think in terms of what they see on the surface and then say “oh that looks easy enough, there couldn’t possibly be more under the hood”.
  - frereubu 4mo ago
    Yeah, my query was an open-and-shut case, I know there are grey areas too. The Arctic Systems case in the UK was an interesting one for IT contractors.
ACCount37 4mo ago
Do you think human accountants are deterministic? Get a large enough org and watch your accounting grow an error margin.
- ofjcihen 4mo ago
  Ha even if this was true (it’s not) you’re basically saying “humans will make some mistakes so let’s throw caution to the wind” which is probably the worst application of AI that I’ve heard yet.
  - Pragmata 4mo ago
    >Ha even if this was true (it’s not) You haven't met many accountants i see. Regardless that's not what he is saying. If there is an acceptable margin of error for humans, we should be able to measure it for AI, and once AI is within those margins then it should be feasible to replace the human.
    - ofjcihen 4mo ago
      Ah yes, because there’s no difference between a shifted decimal and entirely hallucinated credits and debits. This was my CPA wife’s response btw. The entire field is based on balance sheets and context that informs compliance. Let me put it this way: it’s such a bad idea that even Intuit doesn’t let their AI replace a human.
      - fragmede 4mo ago
        Why would Intuit be the barometer here? They're old technology. Pilot.com's got AI bookkeepers and they love them.
        ofjcihen 4mo ago
        Man I hope so because they’re the ones selling them haha.
- 4mo ago
cucumber3732842 4mo ago
The tax code is so complex that business taxes are already nondeterministic.
limaoscarjuliet 4mo ago
The "beatings" delivered by IRS will be deterministic for sure!

That made me laugh, thanks. I remember talking to my accountant in the UK a long time ago when I was newly self-employed, asking if I could pass something off as a business expense that was sort-of-related, but I knew probably not really OK. Her reply has stuck with me ever since: "HMRC [the UK equivalent of the IRS] are interested in matters of fact, not interpretation."

jimnotgym 4mo ago
As an accountant at a large Corp, I can tell you that there are cases daily where two senior accountants argue over how to interpret accounting and tax rules, and often each agrees that the others interpretation is valid. I regularly see rulings from area specialists, and have to challenge them, only to be told, 'well in that case, you would be right' I sometimes ask an AI to comment, and usually their answer is couched is ifs and maybes, just like the humans. I often consult with auditors who tell me x is wrong, and they go away agreeing that y and z would be valid too, and x is also fine. There are often second order effects that need to be thought through. Good luck AI
- ofjcihen 4mo ago
  This is the problem with the majority of AI push coming from devs. They look at something as complex as accounting and only think in terms of what they see on the surface and then say “oh that looks easy enough, there couldn’t possibly be more under the hood”.
- frereubu 4mo ago
  Yeah, my query was an open-and-shut case, I know there are grey areas too. The Arctic Systems case in the UK was an interesting one for IT contractors.

ACCount37 4mo ago

Do you think human accountants are deterministic? Get a large enough org and watch your accounting grow an error margin.

ofjcihen 4mo ago
Ha even if this was true (it’s not) you’re basically saying “humans will make some mistakes so let’s throw caution to the wind” which is probably the worst application of AI that I’ve heard yet.
- Pragmata 4mo ago
  >Ha even if this was true (it’s not) You haven't met many accountants i see. Regardless that's not what he is saying. If there is an acceptable margin of error for humans, we should be able to measure it for AI, and once AI is within those margins then it should be feasible to replace the human.
  - ofjcihen 4mo ago
    Ah yes, because there’s no difference between a shifted decimal and entirely hallucinated credits and debits. This was my CPA wife’s response btw. The entire field is based on balance sheets and context that informs compliance. Let me put it this way: it’s such a bad idea that even Intuit doesn’t let their AI replace a human.
    - fragmede 4mo ago
      Why would Intuit be the barometer here? They're old technology. Pilot.com's got AI bookkeepers and they love them.
      - ofjcihen 4mo ago
        Man I hope so because they’re the ones selling them haha.
4mo ago

cucumber3732842 4mo ago

The tax code is so complex that business taxes are already nondeterministic.

limaoscarjuliet 4mo ago

The "beatings" delivered by IRS will be deterministic for sure!