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Even people who have a round trip commute of 30 miles drive other places than work on average days and have days when they drive 2 and 3x as much as normal days

Even people who have a round trip commute of 30 miles drive other places than work on average days and have days when they drive 2 and 3x as much as normal days every time enough greater than average days line up you have to contend with finding a charger which gets more contentious as more electric cars exist AND as they age in the hands of people who cannot afford to just replace car or battery.

ssl-3 3mo ago
So all of these problems are intractable? There is no way that any of them can be dealt with at all?
- asdff 3mo ago
  It falls into the bin of "tragedies of the commons we could fix with current technology but fail to sufficiently fund and support in earnest" Really, when is the last time we overhauled our built environment and actually followed through with a comprehensive plan in the west? We couldn't even finish the interstate highway system in a time when we had seemingly great alignment towards it along with far cheaper costs. Public housing failed too. Broadband access failed. Cell service is still pretty spotty and unreliable.
  - nradov 3mo ago
    Public housing failed not because of insufficient funding or support but because a small fraction of residents were sociopaths and criminals. The authorities refused to take decisive action to quickly evict the troublemakers and so they wrecked the projects for everyone. Section 8 vouchers have been far more effective by enabling low-income people to rent housing from private landlords at market rates. There are some abuses but overall it's a better model than public housing. Starlink satellite cellular service is available pretty much everywhere now. https://www.t-mobile.com/coverage/satellite-phone-service https://www.t-mobile.com/coverage/satellite-phone-service
    - fragmede 3mo ago
      > overall it's a better model than public housing. I don't know about better, but it's what we've got. The problem is a shortage of housing, and the government building housing solves for that because the public market has been shown to be incompetent at that.
      - s1artibartfast 3mo ago
        mostly because the state has made it illegal or costly to build housing. The only reason the state would do better is if they can ignore either costs or their own regulation. e
        AngryData 3mo ago
        Part of the problem is also the margins to support the top heavy capital class (and the restrictions and permits also favor the capital class). The same reason auto manufacturers put more effort into making expensive luxury cars instead of cheap commuter cars. Why would someone build cheap houses that would net them the same profit in 10 years as building luxury houses that would in 5 years? Especially if the people on top investing the capital only deal with the accounting books and not actual customers and their desires.
        s1artibartfast 3mo ago
        If people could build houses, lots of people would build luxury units until there was no profit in it. Then cheap units would be the most profitable option TO build. If you only get allowed to build 1 house, of course you will target the best demographic. You cant lower prices without flooding the market with competing goods.
    - asdff 3mo ago
      That is probably an issue with low income housing overall. I don't think slumlord landlords are somehow immune to renting to gang members. When I talk about spotty coverage I mean, verizon says I have an LTE connection, and yet I get served with dialup tier experience. Not always, but often. This has been the case for the probably 15 years I've had a mobile data plan. I experience this nowhere near anywhere remote, in the heart of large cities even.
mixmastamyk 3mo ago
Doesn’t matter, go to a charging station once every two weeks if/when charging gets behind. If you’re determined to fail instead of succeed there’s always more excuses to be made. There’s a good tech connections series on this. Slow home charging has been doable for quite a while.
- michaelmrose 3mo ago
  It's doable for single family detached housing for users with a modest daily drive and relatively flat usage patterns so long as they can afford to pay a premium on the car and replace it in a timely fashion when the battery gets sufficiently old that its capacity continues to match peaks in usage with the understanding that failure to keep up means you don't get to work on time or can't get home. Which is exactly why techbros think its obvious and most regular people aren't buying.
  - mixmastamyk 3mo ago
    Nope, our 1970s apartment garage has 120V outlets and light fixtures, some have been tapped, and the rest could cheaply.
    - michaelmrose 3mo ago
      Most apartments especially in cities where most people live are unsuitable for charging of any kind
      - mixmastamyk 3mo ago
        False, just mentioned our apartment. For the ones that need upgrades, we’re talking extension-cord-level technology.
        michaelmrose 3mo ago
        Suburbia has sprawling lots where nobody is near a receptacle and cities have concrete pads which aren't wired save for lighting. In the minority of cases in which there are any outlets at all nearby any assigned parking spot they are locked to prevent homeless camping their charging their stuff. When any spots exist the electrical system would never tolerate more than a few people plugging in at once. For instance if you picked 3 50 unit complexes you would would find that 3 cars were situated to charge out of the 200 to 300 owned. At present like 2% of cars owned not sold are electric to get to a much higher penetration that is desirable we need better charging. You don't live in a statistically valid sample of homes our current attachment only works now because 49 out of 50 cars run on gas.

ssl-3 3mo ago

So all of these problems are intractable? There is no way that any of them can be dealt with at all?

asdff 3mo ago
It falls into the bin of "tragedies of the commons we could fix with current technology but fail to sufficiently fund and support in earnest" Really, when is the last time we overhauled our built environment and actually followed through with a comprehensive plan in the west? We couldn't even finish the interstate highway system in a time when we had seemingly great alignment towards it along with far cheaper costs. Public housing failed too. Broadband access failed. Cell service is still pretty spotty and unreliable.
- nradov 3mo ago
  Public housing failed not because of insufficient funding or support but because a small fraction of residents were sociopaths and criminals. The authorities refused to take decisive action to quickly evict the troublemakers and so they wrecked the projects for everyone. Section 8 vouchers have been far more effective by enabling low-income people to rent housing from private landlords at market rates. There are some abuses but overall it's a better model than public housing. Starlink satellite cellular service is available pretty much everywhere now. https://www.t-mobile.com/coverage/satellite-phone-service https://www.t-mobile.com/coverage/satellite-phone-service
  - fragmede 3mo ago
    > overall it's a better model than public housing. I don't know about better, but it's what we've got. The problem is a shortage of housing, and the government building housing solves for that because the public market has been shown to be incompetent at that.
    - s1artibartfast 3mo ago
      mostly because the state has made it illegal or costly to build housing. The only reason the state would do better is if they can ignore either costs or their own regulation. e
      - AngryData 3mo ago
        Part of the problem is also the margins to support the top heavy capital class (and the restrictions and permits also favor the capital class). The same reason auto manufacturers put more effort into making expensive luxury cars instead of cheap commuter cars. Why would someone build cheap houses that would net them the same profit in 10 years as building luxury houses that would in 5 years? Especially if the people on top investing the capital only deal with the accounting books and not actual customers and their desires.
        s1artibartfast 3mo ago
        If people could build houses, lots of people would build luxury units until there was no profit in it. Then cheap units would be the most profitable option TO build. If you only get allowed to build 1 house, of course you will target the best demographic. You cant lower prices without flooding the market with competing goods.
  - asdff 3mo ago
    That is probably an issue with low income housing overall. I don't think slumlord landlords are somehow immune to renting to gang members. When I talk about spotty coverage I mean, verizon says I have an LTE connection, and yet I get served with dialup tier experience. Not always, but often. This has been the case for the probably 15 years I've had a mobile data plan. I experience this nowhere near anywhere remote, in the heart of large cities even.

mixmastamyk 3mo ago

Doesn’t matter, go to a charging station once every two weeks if/when charging gets behind. If you’re determined to fail instead of succeed there’s always more excuses to be made. There’s a good tech connections series on this. Slow home charging has been doable for quite a while.

michaelmrose 3mo ago
It's doable for single family detached housing for users with a modest daily drive and relatively flat usage patterns so long as they can afford to pay a premium on the car and replace it in a timely fashion when the battery gets sufficiently old that its capacity continues to match peaks in usage with the understanding that failure to keep up means you don't get to work on time or can't get home. Which is exactly why techbros think its obvious and most regular people aren't buying.
- mixmastamyk 3mo ago
  Nope, our 1970s apartment garage has 120V outlets and light fixtures, some have been tapped, and the rest could cheaply.
  - michaelmrose 3mo ago
    Most apartments especially in cities where most people live are unsuitable for charging of any kind
    - mixmastamyk 3mo ago
      False, just mentioned our apartment. For the ones that need upgrades, we’re talking extension-cord-level technology.
      - michaelmrose 3mo ago
        Suburbia has sprawling lots where nobody is near a receptacle and cities have concrete pads which aren't wired save for lighting. In the minority of cases in which there are any outlets at all nearby any assigned parking spot they are locked to prevent homeless camping their charging their stuff. When any spots exist the electrical system would never tolerate more than a few people plugging in at once. For instance if you picked 3 50 unit complexes you would would find that 3 cars were situated to charge out of the 200 to 300 owned. At present like 2% of cars owned not sold are electric to get to a much higher penetration that is desirable we need better charging. You don't live in a statistically valid sample of homes our current attachment only works now because 49 out of 50 cars run on gas.