3 ms·

> On the one hand, because it is easy to build products, more and more people will build. And those people won't need to be software engineers. > but they get

> On the one hand, because it is easy to build products, more and more people will build. And those people won't need to be software engineers. > but they get stuck, and then they will need engineers You've implicitly assumed here that the AI systems will always be worse than the average engineer. That is IMO myopic. I'm not sure that it's even true now let alone in the nebulous future.

throwaway27448 3mo ago
> And those people won't need to be software engineers....You've implicitly assumed here that the AI systems will always be worse than the average engineer. Most of what we do as engineers is precisely describe or analyze the behavior we want or the behavior we don't want. All other engineering skills that are useful are ultimately downstream from understanding the behavior of software enough to know which parts to keep, improve, or jettison. Chatbots can take care, somewhat, of analysis or expansion of instructions.... but they can't read minds. I don't see that changing any time soon.
- BugsJustFindMe 3mo ago
  > but they can't read minds I don't know who needs to hear this, but neither can humans. You've implicitly assumed here that AI systems will always be worse at contextualizing and framing questions than the average engineer. I'm not sure that it's even true now let alone in the nebulous future. You haven't narrowed the fundamental myopia of the assumption here, just dressed it in slightly different clothing.
  - throwaway27448 3mo ago
    > You've implicitly assumed here that AI systems will always be worse at contextualizing and framing questions than the average engineer. How would they know what to ask or contextualize if they don't know what the user wants?
    - BugsJustFindMe 3mo ago
      Are you suggesting that psychic mindreading powers are real? > How would they know How would you? The answer is the same.
      - throwaway27448 3mo ago
        I don't understand what you mean. I can't build software I can't describe. If you're implying chatbots can ask their "client" what to build, good luck with that—contractors are at least liable for what they produce and have extreme incentives to ensure that their clients are happy. To the extent of refusing to build anything if they don't know what they want....
        BugsJustFindMe 3mo ago
        > I don't understand what you mean. If you had psychic mindreading powers you would understand what I mean.
    - ben_w 3mo ago
      By asking the user to explain what they want whenever there's ambiguity. Plus all the other things that software engineers generally have not learned to a professional level even if they picked up the basics on the job by osmosis, because figuring out the customer's needs (and what they'll pay you for which may be different) is the job of a business analyst, a PM, or a UX researcher, and those are different skills and two of them may come with a Business Informatics degree rather than a CompSci one. LLMs can be "eh, better than nothing" at many things, not just code.
      - throwaway27448 3mo ago
        And when an LLM runs up costs for a small company by getting them to lease a bunch of infrastructure they don't need, who can they sue? A contractor or advisor you can't hold liable is just a liability.
        3mo ago
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]

throwaway27448 3mo ago

> And those people won't need to be software engineers....You've implicitly assumed here that the AI systems will always be worse than the average engineer. Most of what we do as engineers is precisely describe or analyze the behavior we want or the behavior we don't want. All other engineering skills that are useful are ultimately downstream from understanding the behavior of software enough to know which parts to keep, improve, or jettison. Chatbots can take care, somewhat, of analysis or expansion of instructions.... but they can't read minds. I don't see that changing any time soon.

BugsJustFindMe 3mo ago
> but they can't read minds I don't know who needs to hear this, but neither can humans. You've implicitly assumed here that AI systems will always be worse at contextualizing and framing questions than the average engineer. I'm not sure that it's even true now let alone in the nebulous future. You haven't narrowed the fundamental myopia of the assumption here, just dressed it in slightly different clothing.
- throwaway27448 3mo ago
  > You've implicitly assumed here that AI systems will always be worse at contextualizing and framing questions than the average engineer. How would they know what to ask or contextualize if they don't know what the user wants?
  - BugsJustFindMe 3mo ago
    Are you suggesting that psychic mindreading powers are real? > How would they know How would you? The answer is the same.
    - throwaway27448 3mo ago
      I don't understand what you mean. I can't build software I can't describe. If you're implying chatbots can ask their "client" what to build, good luck with that—contractors are at least liable for what they produce and have extreme incentives to ensure that their clients are happy. To the extent of refusing to build anything if they don't know what they want....
      - BugsJustFindMe 3mo ago
        > I don't understand what you mean. If you had psychic mindreading powers you would understand what I mean.
  - ben_w 3mo ago
    By asking the user to explain what they want whenever there's ambiguity. Plus all the other things that software engineers generally have not learned to a professional level even if they picked up the basics on the job by osmosis, because figuring out the customer's needs (and what they'll pay you for which may be different) is the job of a business analyst, a PM, or a UX researcher, and those are different skills and two of them may come with a Business Informatics degree rather than a CompSci one. LLMs can be "eh, better than nothing" at many things, not just code.
    - throwaway27448 3mo ago
      And when an LLM runs up costs for a small company by getting them to lease a bunch of infrastructure they don't need, who can they sue? A contractor or advisor you can't hold liable is just a liability.
      - 3mo ago

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]