5 ms·

for no apparent rason? the way they are preparing to bring the population into a war hardly can be any more apparent...

dismalaf 3mo ago
War is less imminent now than ever. Ukraine has caused a ton of damage to Russia and at this point the Kremlin has more to worry about than EU countries (pretty much every Russian government ever is brought down from within). No, leftist governments in the EU have failed to provide prosperity and failed in all their promises, now they're going for total control to try to stay in power. Look at France, as soon as Le Pen was cleared to run for the presidency they start talking about anti "misinformation" laws...
- gambiting 3mo ago
  I don't share this outlook, sadly - given that military figures especially around the Eastern side of EU keep saying military conflict with Russia is "inevitable" in the next 4 years. Of course - they are in the military, their job is specifically to look at the worst case scenarios. But I wouldn't be so sure the risk is not there.
  - dismalaf 3mo ago
    I do think there's the possibility Russia attacks a NATO country in an attempt to save face. I don't think they have the manpower or equipment to sustain an assault that would require any level of mobilization from EU countries.
    - redsocksfan45 3mo ago
      [dead]
- eagleal 3mo ago
  > War is less imminent now than ever You can always make your enemy. Current rearming efforts really remind historians of WW1 arm races. At some point once so much interests and offers are at stake, that creating the demand is inevitable and just a matter of time.
  - throwaway27448 3mo ago
    It's true. Rearming and mobilizing troops will cause a reciprocal reaction in your neighbors. Whether or not war is or was imminent is irrelevant; europe will manifest it regardless.
- pohuing 3mo ago
  [flagged]
  - modo_mario 3mo ago
    I presume hes using it as a shitty euphemism for pro mass migration. Conservative governments have kind of taken side on that front despite rethoric (see Boris wave of the conservatives, CDU and such)
    - pohuing 3mo ago
      But this keeps being spearheaded by Danes, who in recent times aren't particularly pro immigration...
  - dismalaf 3mo ago
    "Conservative" parties in the EU are largely left by US standards... Like, Macron is conservative by Euro standards but Le Pen is obviously way further right. The point is that the actual far right is rising all over Europe and will likely be ascendant in the next round of elections, the establishment is trying to stay in power.
  - ClumsyPilot 3mo ago
    We seem to be good at combining the worst of both sides -> rightwing trickle down economics, left-wing social policy plus boomerism sprinkled on top
    - pohuing 3mo ago
      I quite like my left wing social policy. It's benefited me greatly and the more desperate even more so. Sure I now pay more tax than I would in the US, but my school was free, my university education was practically free, when I got diagnosed with chronic disease, the process of diagnosis was free and even expedient as it was an emergency. My friends are allowed to be as queer as they want to be, and those who don't want to see them are free to look away. Those with mental issues are free from destitution as their employers weren't free to just fire them. The state should work for the most people to live the most comfortable life possible. We would have the money for it, if it weren't for the trickle down virus that's still infected half our politicians. And I can't in good conscience judge anyone for coming here, I would do the same and would want to be treated well as well. Not be put in a concentration camp paid for by the EU, or get my dinky shot by Frontex at high sea, just before reaching the border.
- geysersam 3mo ago
  Are you calling Macron a "leftist"? It does help your argument because it's a tautology that "the leftists failed to provide prosperity" if the entire political spectrum counts as such.
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
bluescrn 3mo ago
War requires industry. But we've deindustrialised and outsourced the manufacture of almost everything to China.
- greenavocado 3mo ago
  They will rapidly reindustrialize when the first shots are fired. The EU's goal is the strategic defeat of Russia. What the common people think or want is irrelevant. All environmental and climate legislation that gets in the way will be waivered indefinitely until the war is over 5+ years of drone warfare and 100s of thousands dead.
  - bluescrn 3mo ago
    The drone war will be quite limited by chip production. And once the chip fabs have been bombed, civilisation is set by by decades, and may end up fighting a lower-tech war.
    - greenavocado 3mo ago
      There are many fabs using "last year's" fab processes for defense purposes. Wouldn't be surprised if they had quick and easy way to set up fabs for chip weapons production in bombed out buildings and warehouses. Defense doesn't need civilian fabs. In the end, we, the civilians, stand to lose tremendously.
    - elictronic 3mo ago
      There are thousands of strikes per day today. The chips needed to control a drone are not the same high cost ones needed for data centers or otherwise. Older fabs work just fine and countries can just eat into their other industries. Beyond this, if you start attacking neutral fabs you lose out on anything from them. Your expectations are quite a bit off if you think striking fabs stops a conflict.
    - AngryData 3mo ago
      Once the chip fabs get bombed much of modern society collapses and insurrection and civil uprising becomes everyone's #1 concern. Politicians are just too stupid to realize this because they live in a protected bubble of fantasy land where nothing they do usually ever directly effects them.
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
anonzzzies 3mo ago
Apparent? Unless Russia attacks there will be no war, it is not the US who willy nilly attacks others.

War is less imminent now than ever. Ukraine has caused a ton of damage to Russia and at this point the Kremlin has more to worry about than EU countries (pretty much every Russian government ever is brought down from within). No, leftist governments in the EU have failed to provide prosperity and failed in all their promises, now they're going for total control to try to stay in power. Look at France, as soon as Le Pen was cleared to run for the presidency they start talking about anti "misinformation" laws...

gambiting 3mo ago
I don't share this outlook, sadly - given that military figures especially around the Eastern side of EU keep saying military conflict with Russia is "inevitable" in the next 4 years. Of course - they are in the military, their job is specifically to look at the worst case scenarios. But I wouldn't be so sure the risk is not there.
- dismalaf 3mo ago
  I do think there's the possibility Russia attacks a NATO country in an attempt to save face. I don't think they have the manpower or equipment to sustain an assault that would require any level of mobilization from EU countries.
  - redsocksfan45 3mo ago
    [dead]
eagleal 3mo ago
> War is less imminent now than ever You can always make your enemy. Current rearming efforts really remind historians of WW1 arm races. At some point once so much interests and offers are at stake, that creating the demand is inevitable and just a matter of time.
- throwaway27448 3mo ago
  It's true. Rearming and mobilizing troops will cause a reciprocal reaction in your neighbors. Whether or not war is or was imminent is irrelevant; europe will manifest it regardless.
pohuing 3mo ago
[flagged]
- modo_mario 3mo ago
  I presume hes using it as a shitty euphemism for pro mass migration. Conservative governments have kind of taken side on that front despite rethoric (see Boris wave of the conservatives, CDU and such)
  - pohuing 3mo ago
    But this keeps being spearheaded by Danes, who in recent times aren't particularly pro immigration...
- dismalaf 3mo ago
  "Conservative" parties in the EU are largely left by US standards... Like, Macron is conservative by Euro standards but Le Pen is obviously way further right. The point is that the actual far right is rising all over Europe and will likely be ascendant in the next round of elections, the establishment is trying to stay in power.
- ClumsyPilot 3mo ago
  We seem to be good at combining the worst of both sides -> rightwing trickle down economics, left-wing social policy plus boomerism sprinkled on top
  - pohuing 3mo ago
    I quite like my left wing social policy. It's benefited me greatly and the more desperate even more so. Sure I now pay more tax than I would in the US, but my school was free, my university education was practically free, when I got diagnosed with chronic disease, the process of diagnosis was free and even expedient as it was an emergency. My friends are allowed to be as queer as they want to be, and those who don't want to see them are free to look away. Those with mental issues are free from destitution as their employers weren't free to just fire them. The state should work for the most people to live the most comfortable life possible. We would have the money for it, if it weren't for the trickle down virus that's still infected half our politicians. And I can't in good conscience judge anyone for coming here, I would do the same and would want to be treated well as well. Not be put in a concentration camp paid for by the EU, or get my dinky shot by Frontex at high sea, just before reaching the border.
geysersam 3mo ago
Are you calling Macron a "leftist"? It does help your argument because it's a tautology that "the leftists failed to provide prosperity" if the entire political spectrum counts as such.

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]

bluescrn 3mo ago

War requires industry. But we've deindustrialised and outsourced the manufacture of almost everything to China.

greenavocado 3mo ago
They will rapidly reindustrialize when the first shots are fired. The EU's goal is the strategic defeat of Russia. What the common people think or want is irrelevant. All environmental and climate legislation that gets in the way will be waivered indefinitely until the war is over 5+ years of drone warfare and 100s of thousands dead.
- bluescrn 3mo ago
  The drone war will be quite limited by chip production. And once the chip fabs have been bombed, civilisation is set by by decades, and may end up fighting a lower-tech war.
  - greenavocado 3mo ago
    There are many fabs using "last year's" fab processes for defense purposes. Wouldn't be surprised if they had quick and easy way to set up fabs for chip weapons production in bombed out buildings and warehouses. Defense doesn't need civilian fabs. In the end, we, the civilians, stand to lose tremendously.
  - elictronic 3mo ago
    There are thousands of strikes per day today. The chips needed to control a drone are not the same high cost ones needed for data centers or otherwise. Older fabs work just fine and countries can just eat into their other industries. Beyond this, if you start attacking neutral fabs you lose out on anything from them. Your expectations are quite a bit off if you think striking fabs stops a conflict.
  - AngryData 3mo ago
    Once the chip fabs get bombed much of modern society collapses and insurrection and civil uprising becomes everyone's #1 concern. Politicians are just too stupid to realize this because they live in a protected bubble of fantasy land where nothing they do usually ever directly effects them.

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]

anonzzzies 3mo ago

Apparent? Unless Russia attacks there will be no war, it is not the US who willy nilly attacks others.