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It's not the preferred political narrative of the model that I worry about. It's how brazen they are about altering their models to achieve it. It makes me wond
by jesse_dot_id 3mo ago
It's not the preferred political narrative of the model that I worry about. It's how brazen they are about altering their models to achieve it. It makes me wonder what else they're altering. I have trust issues with OpenAI and Anthropic as well, but with those companies, at least I know their motives are purely profit driven. I don't have that assurance with xAI.
- rayiner 3mo ago> It's how brazen they are about altering their models to achieve it. We know all the models insert shadow prompts to nudge the answers in preferred political directions. How much more "brazen" can you get than that? Nobody is giving you fat-free results that just apply the models to your prompts.
- dominotw 3mo agoits not just one guys opinion though
- rayiner 3mo agoWho cares whether it’s one guy’s opinion or several people’s group think? Everyone is editing the prompts.
- nozzlegear 3mo agoObviamente people care when the one guy is notorious for having particularly shitty/edgy opinions.
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- brookst 3mo agoWho cares whether it’s one person ruthlessly dictating or an entire population working to improve? Both tyrants and liberal democracies set policies.
- rayiner 3mo agoMore like a dictator versus a Poltiburo. If the “entire population” was voting on the shadow prompts of the other models they would look very different. Considering the recent election results, they would look more like Grok.
- Arkhaine_kupo 3mo ago> More like a dictator versus a Poltiburo. The dictator has a proven track record of stupid opinions in multiple topics, mostly programming, which directly can be measured and understood by people here. Meanwhile the politburo is mostly nerds, who come and interact in places like hackernews. So its basically having a moron making wild choices or a technocracy. > Considering the recent election results, they would look more like Grok. Considering that the largest voter base was "didnt vote" and that the voters of the republican party measured lower in literacy, technical knowledge, higher education acquisitions and even studies on accurately describing reality. I am not entirely confident they would participate or move the shadow prompt in any meaningful direction.
- rayiner 3mo ago> Considering that the largest voter base was "didnt vote" It’s a fallacy to treat “didn’t vote” as “didn’t support the winner.” Non-voters are more pro-Trump than average: https://data.blueroseresearch.org/hubfs/2024%20Blue%20Rose%20Research%20Retrospective.pdf https://data.blueroseresearch.org/hubfs/2024%20Blue%20Rose%2.... See p. 6 (“There’s a turnout story this cycle – but a different one than we’re used to talking about. With the combination of less-engaged and less-likely voters leaning more GOP, a larger electorate meant a more Republican electorate. Projecting onto the full voter file, if every registered voter voted, it’s likely that Trump would have won by even more.”). The data consistently shows that non-voters have lower trust in institutions. They’re the exact type of people who are going to be more skeptical of shadow prompt engineering being done by “safety experts” at Google and Meta.
- reinitctxoffset 3mo agoI mean one of the guys got fired by his own board for lying and is still calling the shots. Another guy sued the Pentagon during a war and we're still letting him act like a nation state. Musk's empire of personality cult is like, idk, on slightly more cocaine? I'm having a hard time being like: "oh, that's the bad self-appointed, self-dealing would be God Emperor. they're not all like that. why some of my very best friends are cluster B psycho con men with crime funding."
- martimarkov 3mo agoWhat war? Also should laws not be followed during wars? I assume suing is a legal action in this case as oppose to something else?
- grosswait 3mo agoImplying you prefer your manipulation to be subtle an not discussed
- runarberg 3mo agoI don’t think that is necessarily a bad preference if this was an actual dichotomy. Not all types of manipulation is equal, and when you at least try to hide it shows at least some respect for the user. That said, I don‘t believe this dichotomy is real. Personally I don‘t use AI, political manipulation is however only a relatively tiny part of my reasoning for opting out.
- ibejoeb 3mo agoThat's certainly not a universal preference. There are people and even entire cultures for whom being surreptitiously manipulative is disrespectful.
- runarberg 3mo agoMaybe so. I am personally intimately familiar with two cultures (Iceland and West Coast USA) and in both of these this preference is predominant. But even so, that still would not make the behavior equal, as GP insinuated, it would merely reverse who’s worse.
- mistercheph 3mo agoShow some respect and stab me in the back at least!
- niam 3mo agoArguing that "at least John is doing [clown thing] in the open" just dilutes whatever leverage John's supporters had against John on that thing. I find myself unwanting to be on the side of people who willingly give up leverage.
- DeusExMachina 3mo ago
- rafaelmn 3mo ago> at least I know their motives are purely profit driven. What profit ? They are blatantly focusing on investment narratives, politics, control, stifling competition. Profit is like a footnote at this point.
- briandw 3mo agoGemini was giving us ethnically diverse images of Nazis. Was that profit driven or political?
- miohtama 3mo agoIt was driven by stupidy
- Auracle 3mo agoPolitical driven stupidity.
- cush 3mo agoIt was driven by a need to remove biases (and likely real racism) from the models. They were trained on internet content
- maxlin 3mo agoHow is changing history and making a a group of objectively white people black "removing bias" ˋ? What it is is literally bias. Like thinking Pi could be 4. Removing bias ends with truth, not these crazy wonky results.
- monk_grilla 3mo agoDo you think they deliberately trained the model to produce images of diverse Nazis? It is clearly a byproduct of trying to correct an unaligned, bigoted model, and that is an example of overcorrection. > Removing bias ends with truth, not these crazy wonky results. Unfortunately there is an awful lot of untruth on the internet, if you hadn't noticed. This necessitates some correction through post-training.
- margorczynski 3mo ago> bigoted model A what? What does this even mean?
- cm2187 3mo agoYou mean as opposed to Gemini's "subtle" woke push with diverse nazi soldiers?
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- holoduke 3mo agoSure man. Palantir rings a bell? Ohh not relevant right...