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It only sounds like overreach because we have become numb to an incredible amount of killing from distracted drivers.

mattrighetti 4mo ago
Did a quick research and saw that in 2024 there were around 12k deaths in which one or more drunk drivers were involved. Doesn’t seem like much for a country with around 350 million people. In comparison, drug causes 7x those deaths. Cancer and heart diseases even more.
- Gigachad 4mo ago
  That's already a huge number. But it's ignoring the much larger issue of distracted drivers, usually on their phone.
- Klathmon 4mo ago
  I feel like we have the technology to prevent a car from starting if the driver is significantly impared, but "solving" addiction, cancer, and heart disease are much harder problems. Obviously it would need to be implemented carefully, but I personally would be more than fine blowing into a tube to start my car if it meant saving 12k lives a year with a very low false positive rate. That being said I know it would never be implemented in a sane way in the US, and you would probably have situations like your car insurance automatically increasing due to a faulty sensor, so I'm ultimately against it unless a lot of other stuff changes. But it's still much more possible than "preventing drug addiction"
  - mattrighetti 4mo ago
    > Obviously it would need to be implemented carefully, but I personally would be more than fine blowing into a tube to start my car if it meant saving 12k lives a year with a very low false positive rate. I can already see two issues with these devices: - They can’t reliably identify the actual driver. Criminals might simply ask someone else to blow into the device. - With every car equipped with this safety feature, people might assume everyone driving isn’t drunk. I’m not sure. It seems like this will only add extra hassle for law-abiding citizens while those for whom it was designed will likely find workarounds.
    - zeratax 4mo ago
      i think of those 12k only a tiny minority would go that far. like at the point you are involving other people, why not just ask them to drive you home? like yea people will always find workarounds, but a solution doesnt have to be perfect to be effective.
- ryantgtg 4mo ago
  Every car safety post on HN has "guy who thinks 12k deaths is maybe not too bad." Thanks, guy! You really put things in perspective there.
  - ShinyLeftPad 4mo ago
    Guy probably doesn't personally know any of those 12k...
  - mattrighetti 4mo ago
    I was simply suggesting that perhaps this level of overreach isn’t justified. Of course, any road death is regrettable.
    - ryantgtg 4mo ago
      Most every road death is the outcome of a poor decision made by a human. It's too much responsibility for many people, given the propensity to make choices that increase the chance of death and serious injury to others.
- ShinyLeftPad 4mo ago
  Cancer & heart disease you're counting basically all natural causes.
- ajnin 4mo ago
  12k is obviously a large number of preventable deaths, especially, and it's a huge difference with diseases, when you consider that some of those deaths are people getting killed by drunk drivers. I don't think there is any acceptable number of people that did absolutely nothing wrong getting killed by a drunk or inattentive driver.
  - oalae5niMiel7qu 4mo ago
    If you simply lock everyone up for their whole lives, you can prevent all kinds of deadly accidents. Eventually, somebody will argue that we are all morally obliged to accept being locked up for this reason.
- basisword 4mo ago
  I'm sure if you were one of those 12k your loved ones wouldn't be saying "what's 12k in a country of 350m?".
lettergram 4mo ago
> incredible amount of killing from distracted drivers > 1.10 fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles traveled https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/trumps-transportation-department-announces-record-low-traffic-deaths-fatality-rates https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/trumps-transpor... For reference, fatalities on bikes: > 9.32 fatalities per 100 million cyclist miles (6 deaths per 100M kilometers) https://www.calbike.org/urban-transportation-research-bike-fatalities/ https://www.calbike.org/urban-transportation-research-bike-f...
- Gigachad 4mo ago
  The first link is a propaganda website so not really much use, and for the second one, pretty much all fatalities on bikes are the result of being killed by distracted drivers. >The US has eight times as many pedestrian deaths per mile as Germany. Clearly the US is unusually bad for distracted driving.
  - lettergram 4mo ago
    The stats come from the government agency in the US which tracks driver fatalities. Here's the source document: https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/813800 https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/... Regarding "distracted driving" causing cyclist fatalities, my point was more that bicyclists have a higher risk rate. If we're already going down this path for safety, banning bicycling would have a higher impact than reducing fatalities ~10% which is what the EU claimed it could prevent. Regarding the claim that "pretty much all fatalities on bikes are the result of being killed by drivers", that's simply not true. It also largely depends on laws and location. https://www.bikeattorney.com/bike-accident-common-causes.html https://www.bikeattorney.com/bike-accident-common-causes.htm... https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2011/05/20/136462246/when-bikes-and-cars-collide-whos-more-likely-to-be-at-fault https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2011/05/20/1364622...
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      [deleted]
    - 4mo ago
oalae5niMiel7qu 4mo ago
What we've become numb to is the massive amount of overreach that has already happened.

Did a quick research and saw that in 2024 there were around 12k deaths in which one or more drunk drivers were involved. Doesn’t seem like much for a country with around 350 million people. In comparison, drug causes 7x those deaths. Cancer and heart diseases even more.

Gigachad 4mo ago
That's already a huge number. But it's ignoring the much larger issue of distracted drivers, usually on their phone.
Klathmon 4mo ago
I feel like we have the technology to prevent a car from starting if the driver is significantly impared, but "solving" addiction, cancer, and heart disease are much harder problems. Obviously it would need to be implemented carefully, but I personally would be more than fine blowing into a tube to start my car if it meant saving 12k lives a year with a very low false positive rate. That being said I know it would never be implemented in a sane way in the US, and you would probably have situations like your car insurance automatically increasing due to a faulty sensor, so I'm ultimately against it unless a lot of other stuff changes. But it's still much more possible than "preventing drug addiction"
- mattrighetti 4mo ago
  > Obviously it would need to be implemented carefully, but I personally would be more than fine blowing into a tube to start my car if it meant saving 12k lives a year with a very low false positive rate. I can already see two issues with these devices: - They can’t reliably identify the actual driver. Criminals might simply ask someone else to blow into the device. - With every car equipped with this safety feature, people might assume everyone driving isn’t drunk. I’m not sure. It seems like this will only add extra hassle for law-abiding citizens while those for whom it was designed will likely find workarounds.
  - zeratax 4mo ago
    i think of those 12k only a tiny minority would go that far. like at the point you are involving other people, why not just ask them to drive you home? like yea people will always find workarounds, but a solution doesnt have to be perfect to be effective.
ryantgtg 4mo ago
Every car safety post on HN has "guy who thinks 12k deaths is maybe not too bad." Thanks, guy! You really put things in perspective there.
- ShinyLeftPad 4mo ago
  Guy probably doesn't personally know any of those 12k...
- mattrighetti 4mo ago
  I was simply suggesting that perhaps this level of overreach isn’t justified. Of course, any road death is regrettable.
  - ryantgtg 4mo ago
    Most every road death is the outcome of a poor decision made by a human. It's too much responsibility for many people, given the propensity to make choices that increase the chance of death and serious injury to others.
ShinyLeftPad 4mo ago
Cancer & heart disease you're counting basically all natural causes.
ajnin 4mo ago
12k is obviously a large number of preventable deaths, especially, and it's a huge difference with diseases, when you consider that some of those deaths are people getting killed by drunk drivers. I don't think there is any acceptable number of people that did absolutely nothing wrong getting killed by a drunk or inattentive driver.
- oalae5niMiel7qu 4mo ago
  If you simply lock everyone up for their whole lives, you can prevent all kinds of deadly accidents. Eventually, somebody will argue that we are all morally obliged to accept being locked up for this reason.
basisword 4mo ago
I'm sure if you were one of those 12k your loved ones wouldn't be saying "what's 12k in a country of 350m?".

lettergram 4mo ago

> incredible amount of killing from distracted drivers > 1.10 fatalities per 100 million vehicle miles traveled https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/trumps-transportation-department-announces-record-low-traffic-deaths-fatality-rates https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/trumps-transpor... For reference, fatalities on bikes: > 9.32 fatalities per 100 million cyclist miles (6 deaths per 100M kilometers) https://www.calbike.org/urban-transportation-research-bike-fatalities/ https://www.calbike.org/urban-transportation-research-bike-f...

Gigachad 4mo ago
The first link is a propaganda website so not really much use, and for the second one, pretty much all fatalities on bikes are the result of being killed by distracted drivers. >The US has eight times as many pedestrian deaths per mile as Germany. Clearly the US is unusually bad for distracted driving.
- lettergram 4mo ago
  The stats come from the government agency in the US which tracks driver fatalities. Here's the source document: https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/813800 https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/... Regarding "distracted driving" causing cyclist fatalities, my point was more that bicyclists have a higher risk rate. If we're already going down this path for safety, banning bicycling would have a higher impact than reducing fatalities ~10% which is what the EU claimed it could prevent. Regarding the claim that "pretty much all fatalities on bikes are the result of being killed by drivers", that's simply not true. It also largely depends on laws and location. https://www.bikeattorney.com/bike-accident-common-causes.html https://www.bikeattorney.com/bike-accident-common-causes.htm... https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2011/05/20/136462246/when-bikes-and-cars-collide-whos-more-likely-to-be-at-fault https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2011/05/20/1364622...
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  - 4mo ago

oalae5niMiel7qu 4mo ago

What we've become numb to is the massive amount of overreach that has already happened.