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>He sees it as a challenge to his legitimacy and China’s power This right here is why “corruption” should be looked on with great skepticism. In an authoritari

>He sees it as a challenge to his legitimacy and China’s power This right here is why “corruption” should be looked on with great skepticism. In an authoritarian government basic liberties we take for granted in the West are considered corruption. You know, like having a say in how people are governed. This is a high crime in a state with 1 party that cannot be replaced. In that way, “corruption” can mean “not being loyal to the dictator.”

paytonjjones 3mo ago
That may well be true, but that hardly applies to the current case of taking $325M in bribes
- nekusar 3mo ago
  US folks will contort to the extremes about any discussion of gross illegal conduct in China. This guy took $325M in bribes, embezzlement, abuse of power, and money laundering. And he did this as a public servant for over 30 years. I say good on China for attacking such brazen corruption so directly. Violating the public trust should be extremely harsh.
  - trhway 3mo ago
    >And he did this as a public servant for over 30 years. and it was discovered just now? May it be that he played exactly by the rules, the real rules, of the regime - corruption being among the foundational rules of it - and thus it was going for 30 years? And right now he just got his turn like it usually happens in totalitarian regimes. The regime will for show find an excuse to execute you if you got your turn, corruption is just the easiest one. Also note that corruption is for the officials, state treason is for regular citizens. Same as in Russia. The regime wouldn't want to create impression of political disunity among the officials. >Violating the public trust should be extremely harsh. definitely. The only question why the comrade Xi is still not executed?
    - ToucanLoucan 3mo ago
      > and it was discovered just now? May it be that he played exactly by the rules, the real rules, of the regime - corruption being among the foundational rules of it - and thus it was going for 30 years? And right now he just got his turn like it usually happens in totalitarian regimes. The regime will for show find an excuse to execute you if you got your turn, corruption is just the easiest one. Yeah, that would be wild if any of that completely unsubstantiated conjecture, bordering on fan-fiction, was what actually happened. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. White collar criminals often get caught later in their "careers" precisely because they do it for years and years and years without being caught. They get complacent. They get messy. Each round of embezzlement leads to a larger body of evidence that exists somewhere that becomes more and more damning as time goes on. > The regime wouldn't want to create impression of political disunity among the officials. In this thread we have dozens of examples of political officials being prosecuted. I'd strongly suggest you park your McCarthyism, take a break, perhaps go for a nice walk.
      - trhway 3mo ago
        You really don’t know what you’re talking about, don’t you? You’re from a Western country, right? >White collar criminals often get caught later in their "careers" precisely because they do it for years and years and years without being caught. You’ve definitely never seen the castles and fleets of exotic cars that government officials in those countries manage to get on their meager government salaries. Yet you post such authoritative comments …
        ToucanLoucan 3mo ago
        If you have evidence as to any of the wild conjecture you're posting, you're more than free to provide it instead of just lobbing out accusations as though they change anything substantive about the arguments being made.
        nekusar 3mo ago
        Yep, this is the usual common response from Americans. Its just Sinophobic whataboutism. China has laws especially regarding significant financial crimes like embezzlement, theft, money laundering. And most governments also have rules against breaching public trust, corruption by favoritism, bribery, and more. This guy was in multiple public servant roles, and exfiltrated $325M. This isn't a 'possible smell of impropriety ' in taking a supper with a potential vendor. This is basically highly illegal anywhere in the world. But the Americans go back to their 'but communist China!' howls. The punishment's harsh, sure. But I think its a great standard to hold leaders and public servants to.
  - libertine 3mo ago
    Well it isn't much contortionism when you look at the big picture you'll find that corruption is an institution in some countries. For example, you're making an effort to try legitimize the regime by framing a factual gross illegal conduct as a overarching policy. But is it like that when you observe the whole structure? How wealthy are the ruling elites? Or for example, how has IP theft policy changed? Or we can reframe this: how do we tell the difference between a genuine tackle on corruption, from a weed out of the system with a public display? You have plenty of cases in other corrupt regimes when they want to seize assets from someone the regime wants to push away: it's corruption. Which again, they could be very well be corrupt, but they are corrupt because they're part of the regime. You'll probably say: "Oh but the USS!!!" Yes, there's some level of systemic corruption there, just not an institution - yet!
    - ClumsyPilot 3mo ago
      I like how you are unable to separate actual crimes from government policies you disagree with. >> corruption is an institution >> Or for example, how has IP theft policy changed? Another country may decide to have no IP protections, that’s not a crime. Furthermore Intellectual property is legal fiction, some people and countries don’t believe in it. Apparently Anthropic don’t believe in IP either, they are stealing everything that isn’t nailed down, but cry wolf when someone does it to them. And they are asking for legal immunity on IP theft.
      - libertine 3mo ago
        I'm not being unable to separate crime from policy, you're the one trying to dilute both as showing a signal to policy change. If this was just a political action to take down just another corrupt official enabled by the government, how is this a good thing? Well for a lot of countries protecting inventions with patents was a major trigger for development, so much so it became a cornerstone and you can even say an institution. So of course it would be viewed as corruption by any country with such institutions. And it's not like China says it would never abide by IP, else they would have never got the investment that made them into what they are today. But look further from IP theft, what about seizing assets from companies, or whole companies?
- anjel 3mo ago
  Intro to "moral hazard"
trhway 3mo ago
As Stalin demonstrated even when you're totally loyal, you're still frequently made victim of the terror. The point of totalitarian regime is that nobody should feel safe, nobody should have an agency. In particular the people shouldn't be able to obtain safety themselves even by the way of being totally loyal. I have no doubt that that guy was corrupt like any other official there. Yet, he isn't punished for the corruption. The show needed another star, and he was chosen to be that star.
- pessimizer 3mo ago
  These are just weird fantasies that you're writing out, with absolutely no reference to any events that have happened in China. You seem to just be writing fiction, and assigning it to the Chinese. The Chinese are actually people, though, they're real. If you want to accuse them of unremitting evil, you should be able to talk about something they did in detail. That does not mean that you should google "China bad" and paste a bunch of random urls in a reply, though. What Cold War propaganda did to Western brains is tragic.
  - trhway 3mo ago
    >What Cold War propaganda did to Western brains is tragic. Some weird fantasies you have. I grew up in USSR. So very well familiar with inner workings of such regimes.
    - omicronxt 3mo ago
      > I grew up in USSR. So very well familiar with inner workings of such regimes. Just wondering how old you are? 60? 70?
    - D_Alex 3mo ago
      Did you feel safe, growing up?
ClumsyPilot 3mo ago
>> basic liberties we take for granted in the West are considered corruption Like insider trading by congress? Jokes aside, this is not how dictatorships normally deal with democratic activists? I don’t see how you can come to this conclusion u less you believe that corporations are people, election spending is a form of legally protected free speech, and corporations should vote in elections: https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/delaware-court-upholds-voting-by-companies-small-towns-election-2026-05-26/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/delaware-court-upho...
- JumpCrisscross 3mo ago
  > Like insider trading by congress? No. Like Kushner and Witkoff and Trump (and probably Hunter Biden) literally peddling influence for money.
vkou 3mo ago
> In an authoritarian government basic liberties we take for granted in the West are considered corruption Could you list some of those basic liberties? Are they the sort of liberties whose exercise involves taking half a billion in bribes? --- Generally, basic liberties like showing up to a protest aren't considered corruption, they get called terrorism, or somesuch. A Texas judge just sentenced a dozen people to 30-70 years in prison for exercising them, by the way. Some of the people given 30 weren't even at the protest. Half this forum looked at that, and saw nothing wrong with it. I can only imagine that if they were born on the other side of the Pacific ocean, they would be card-carrying party members.
- guywithahat 3mo ago
  For anyone else curious as to what OP is talking about, I had to look this up: > The protest was a late-night/noise demonstration (involving fireworks) against immigration detention policies. It turned violent when a shooting injured a police officer. Prosecutors described it as an "act of terrorism" linked to an alleged antifa cell; defendants and supporters denied organized antifa ties and framed it as protected protest activity https://x.com/i/grok/share/87352ef0ac4b454aba924157c44f476f https://x.com/i/grok/share/87352ef0ac4b454aba924157c44f476f It sounds like they arrived in tactical gear, started destroying property, and when cops arrived opened fire. This seems like a bad example on your part, as the people opposing ICE are some of the most misaligned people in the country. That said, we have a right to protest in traditional public forms, you don't have a right to shoot up an ICE facility.
  - vkou 3mo ago
    Only one person opened fire. He got 100 years. (I agree that he shouldn't have gotten a slap on the wrist for what he did, but I'll happily point out that killers serve less, if at all.) The rest got 70. None of them had guns. The guy who got 30 years wasn't even at the protest. --- There is no universe where this is not completely batshit insane, but it's interesting to see you use the exact same logic[1] the CCP has in its crackdowns and pogroms to justify it. The reason the sentences were so high, by the way, was because the judge took dozens of minor offenses and added the sentences for each. It's the equivalent of sentencing someone who stole a 12-pack for 12 counts of theft, or someone tagging 'FUCK ICE' for 8 counts[1] of destruction of federal property. For some reason, the current regime does not hold its footsoldiers and other useful idiots to the same standard. --- [1] Someone in a protest/movement/group did something bad, brand them all terrorists, and make sure that everyone's going to a 're-education' camp for what will remain of their lives. [2] One for each letter, and another one for the space.

paytonjjones 3mo ago

That may well be true, but that hardly applies to the current case of taking $325M in bribes

nekusar 3mo ago
US folks will contort to the extremes about any discussion of gross illegal conduct in China. This guy took $325M in bribes, embezzlement, abuse of power, and money laundering. And he did this as a public servant for over 30 years. I say good on China for attacking such brazen corruption so directly. Violating the public trust should be extremely harsh.
- trhway 3mo ago
  >And he did this as a public servant for over 30 years. and it was discovered just now? May it be that he played exactly by the rules, the real rules, of the regime - corruption being among the foundational rules of it - and thus it was going for 30 years? And right now he just got his turn like it usually happens in totalitarian regimes. The regime will for show find an excuse to execute you if you got your turn, corruption is just the easiest one. Also note that corruption is for the officials, state treason is for regular citizens. Same as in Russia. The regime wouldn't want to create impression of political disunity among the officials. >Violating the public trust should be extremely harsh. definitely. The only question why the comrade Xi is still not executed?
  - ToucanLoucan 3mo ago
    > and it was discovered just now? May it be that he played exactly by the rules, the real rules, of the regime - corruption being among the foundational rules of it - and thus it was going for 30 years? And right now he just got his turn like it usually happens in totalitarian regimes. The regime will for show find an excuse to execute you if you got your turn, corruption is just the easiest one. Yeah, that would be wild if any of that completely unsubstantiated conjecture, bordering on fan-fiction, was what actually happened. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. White collar criminals often get caught later in their "careers" precisely because they do it for years and years and years without being caught. They get complacent. They get messy. Each round of embezzlement leads to a larger body of evidence that exists somewhere that becomes more and more damning as time goes on. > The regime wouldn't want to create impression of political disunity among the officials. In this thread we have dozens of examples of political officials being prosecuted. I'd strongly suggest you park your McCarthyism, take a break, perhaps go for a nice walk.
    - trhway 3mo ago
      You really don’t know what you’re talking about, don’t you? You’re from a Western country, right? >White collar criminals often get caught later in their "careers" precisely because they do it for years and years and years without being caught. You’ve definitely never seen the castles and fleets of exotic cars that government officials in those countries manage to get on their meager government salaries. Yet you post such authoritative comments …
      - ToucanLoucan 3mo ago
        If you have evidence as to any of the wild conjecture you're posting, you're more than free to provide it instead of just lobbing out accusations as though they change anything substantive about the arguments being made.
        nekusar 3mo ago
        Yep, this is the usual common response from Americans. Its just Sinophobic whataboutism. China has laws especially regarding significant financial crimes like embezzlement, theft, money laundering. And most governments also have rules against breaching public trust, corruption by favoritism, bribery, and more. This guy was in multiple public servant roles, and exfiltrated $325M. This isn't a 'possible smell of impropriety ' in taking a supper with a potential vendor. This is basically highly illegal anywhere in the world. But the Americans go back to their 'but communist China!' howls. The punishment's harsh, sure. But I think its a great standard to hold leaders and public servants to.
- libertine 3mo ago
  Well it isn't much contortionism when you look at the big picture you'll find that corruption is an institution in some countries. For example, you're making an effort to try legitimize the regime by framing a factual gross illegal conduct as a overarching policy. But is it like that when you observe the whole structure? How wealthy are the ruling elites? Or for example, how has IP theft policy changed? Or we can reframe this: how do we tell the difference between a genuine tackle on corruption, from a weed out of the system with a public display? You have plenty of cases in other corrupt regimes when they want to seize assets from someone the regime wants to push away: it's corruption. Which again, they could be very well be corrupt, but they are corrupt because they're part of the regime. You'll probably say: "Oh but the USS!!!" Yes, there's some level of systemic corruption there, just not an institution - yet!
  - ClumsyPilot 3mo ago
    I like how you are unable to separate actual crimes from government policies you disagree with. >> corruption is an institution >> Or for example, how has IP theft policy changed? Another country may decide to have no IP protections, that’s not a crime. Furthermore Intellectual property is legal fiction, some people and countries don’t believe in it. Apparently Anthropic don’t believe in IP either, they are stealing everything that isn’t nailed down, but cry wolf when someone does it to them. And they are asking for legal immunity on IP theft.
    - libertine 3mo ago
      I'm not being unable to separate crime from policy, you're the one trying to dilute both as showing a signal to policy change. If this was just a political action to take down just another corrupt official enabled by the government, how is this a good thing? Well for a lot of countries protecting inventions with patents was a major trigger for development, so much so it became a cornerstone and you can even say an institution. So of course it would be viewed as corruption by any country with such institutions. And it's not like China says it would never abide by IP, else they would have never got the investment that made them into what they are today. But look further from IP theft, what about seizing assets from companies, or whole companies?
anjel 3mo ago
Intro to "moral hazard"

trhway 3mo ago

As Stalin demonstrated even when you're totally loyal, you're still frequently made victim of the terror. The point of totalitarian regime is that nobody should feel safe, nobody should have an agency. In particular the people shouldn't be able to obtain safety themselves even by the way of being totally loyal. I have no doubt that that guy was corrupt like any other official there. Yet, he isn't punished for the corruption. The show needed another star, and he was chosen to be that star.

pessimizer 3mo ago
These are just weird fantasies that you're writing out, with absolutely no reference to any events that have happened in China. You seem to just be writing fiction, and assigning it to the Chinese. The Chinese are actually people, though, they're real. If you want to accuse them of unremitting evil, you should be able to talk about something they did in detail. That does not mean that you should google "China bad" and paste a bunch of random urls in a reply, though. What Cold War propaganda did to Western brains is tragic.
- trhway 3mo ago
  >What Cold War propaganda did to Western brains is tragic. Some weird fantasies you have. I grew up in USSR. So very well familiar with inner workings of such regimes.
  - omicronxt 3mo ago
    > I grew up in USSR. So very well familiar with inner workings of such regimes. Just wondering how old you are? 60? 70?
  - D_Alex 3mo ago
    Did you feel safe, growing up?

ClumsyPilot 3mo ago

>> basic liberties we take for granted in the West are considered corruption Like insider trading by congress? Jokes aside, this is not how dictatorships normally deal with democratic activists? I don’t see how you can come to this conclusion u less you believe that corporations are people, election spending is a form of legally protected free speech, and corporations should vote in elections: https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/delaware-court-upholds-voting-by-companies-small-towns-election-2026-05-26/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/delaware-court-upho...

JumpCrisscross 3mo ago
> Like insider trading by congress? No. Like Kushner and Witkoff and Trump (and probably Hunter Biden) literally peddling influence for money.

vkou 3mo ago

> In an authoritarian government basic liberties we take for granted in the West are considered corruption Could you list some of those basic liberties? Are they the sort of liberties whose exercise involves taking half a billion in bribes? --- Generally, basic liberties like showing up to a protest aren't considered corruption, they get called terrorism, or somesuch. A Texas judge just sentenced a dozen people to 30-70 years in prison for exercising them, by the way. Some of the people given 30 weren't even at the protest. Half this forum looked at that, and saw nothing wrong with it. I can only imagine that if they were born on the other side of the Pacific ocean, they would be card-carrying party members.

guywithahat 3mo ago
For anyone else curious as to what OP is talking about, I had to look this up: > The protest was a late-night/noise demonstration (involving fireworks) against immigration detention policies. It turned violent when a shooting injured a police officer. Prosecutors described it as an "act of terrorism" linked to an alleged antifa cell; defendants and supporters denied organized antifa ties and framed it as protected protest activity https://x.com/i/grok/share/87352ef0ac4b454aba924157c44f476f https://x.com/i/grok/share/87352ef0ac4b454aba924157c44f476f It sounds like they arrived in tactical gear, started destroying property, and when cops arrived opened fire. This seems like a bad example on your part, as the people opposing ICE are some of the most misaligned people in the country. That said, we have a right to protest in traditional public forms, you don't have a right to shoot up an ICE facility.
- vkou 3mo ago
  Only one person opened fire. He got 100 years. (I agree that he shouldn't have gotten a slap on the wrist for what he did, but I'll happily point out that killers serve less, if at all.) The rest got 70. None of them had guns. The guy who got 30 years wasn't even at the protest. --- There is no universe where this is not completely batshit insane, but it's interesting to see you use the exact same logic[1] the CCP has in its crackdowns and pogroms to justify it. The reason the sentences were so high, by the way, was because the judge took dozens of minor offenses and added the sentences for each. It's the equivalent of sentencing someone who stole a 12-pack for 12 counts of theft, or someone tagging 'FUCK ICE' for 8 counts[1] of destruction of federal property. For some reason, the current regime does not hold its footsoldiers and other useful idiots to the same standard. --- [1] Someone in a protest/movement/group did something bad, brand them all terrorists, and make sure that everyone's going to a 're-education' camp for what will remain of their lives. [2] One for each letter, and another one for the space.