3 ms·

> But I do want to sequence it using a third-party Don't forget to change your DNA when the third party's database will eventually leak. (see the 21andMe's dat

by stymaar 3mo ago

> But I do want to sequence it using a third-party Don't forget to change your DNA when the third party's database will eventually leak. (see the 21andMe's data leak: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23andMe_data_leak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23andMe_data_leak)

vintermann 3mo ago
They did not leak their database, the attacker guessed some user passwords and scraped those people's match lists. I don't think they even got their hacked user's test results - you can download those from 23andMe, as GDPR requires, but it's a "request your data" process which isn't so easy to do at scale without people noticing. 23andMe is also not NGS sequencing, so you get only a couple of 100000 letters randomly* distributed across your whole genome.
- jefftk 3mo ago
  I know you put an asterisk, but to make it clear: these locations are very far from random. They're the most informative positions, which is why we check them.
  - vintermann 3mo ago
    Well, they're what 23andMe thinks are most informative, for the things they think their customers care about. Or thought; for compatibility reasons they can't change their SNP panels very often or too much. And the interesting positions are still reasonably randomly distributed by nature :)
    - bonsai_spool 3mo ago
      I don't do SNP design but I don't think 23andMe made their own chips at first (if they have ever). SNPs are chosen based on being informative for population discrimination, with traits being overlaid afterwards
      - vintermann 3mo ago
        I could be wrong, but I do believe they get to choose. What I do know is that none of the big testing companies test exactly the same SNPs, there is some overlap but every test is different. They also change their SNP sets from time to time, 23andMe has changed at least 5 times, and interestingly, their current test isn't the biggest (it tests fewer SNPs than some of their earlier ones).
    - doctorpangloss 3mo ago
      well SNPs aren't useful for drug development, commercialization, medicine, etc. you want whole genome or whole exome sequencing for stuff that is future-looking. they use a process for the present day (quickly becoming the past) of okayish drugs instead of sequencing for a future of cures.
neoden 3mo ago
what is the attack vector btw?
- saxonww 3mo ago
  Finding yourself in a genetically-determined out group, and being treated differently / discriminated against because of it.
  - Noaidi 3mo ago
    Honestly, you don't need someone's genetics for this to happen. They will find out more about you by scraping your socials and spending habits and driving habits. I think this whole fear is over blown anyway. I am in a genetic out group (schizoaffective disorder and yes my risk is genetic) and the benefits of getting my genetics run twice out weighed any risk that might have befallen me.
    - deleted 3mo ago
      [deleted]
    - graemep 3mo ago
      You have control over your habits, and what you reveal on your "socials". I post very little personal. You have no control over your genes.
      - Noaidi 3mo ago
        > You have control over your habits If you have to change your habits because a secret system is watching over you it means they are already controlling you. You cannot hide your bank account, where you drive, what you buy, and on and on and on. And all I need to get your DNA is pick up a cup you drank from or go through your garbage.
      - vintermann 3mo ago
        23andMe bet big that genetic big data would be super valuable. That really didn't work out for them. It turns out that it's more valuable for advertisers to learn if you actually smoke, than that you have a genetic propensity for smoking. Your genotype is just useful for figuring out your phenotype, and in the vast majority of cases, your genetics (especially not at the resolution offered by 23andMe) are not a shortcut to learn your behavior, which is what they're really after. You're probably already classed as some variety of paranoid/dissident for your careful social media preferences...

by stymaar 3mo ago

vintermann 3mo ago

They did not leak their database, the attacker guessed some user passwords and scraped those people's match lists. I don't think they even got their hacked user's test results - you can download those from 23andMe, as GDPR requires, but it's a "request your data" process which isn't so easy to do at scale without people noticing. 23andMe is also not NGS sequencing, so you get only a couple of 100000 letters randomly* distributed across your whole genome.

jefftk 3mo ago
I know you put an asterisk, but to make it clear: these locations are very far from random. They're the most informative positions, which is why we check them.
- vintermann 3mo ago
  Well, they're what 23andMe thinks are most informative, for the things they think their customers care about. Or thought; for compatibility reasons they can't change their SNP panels very often or too much. And the interesting positions are still reasonably randomly distributed by nature :)
  - bonsai_spool 3mo ago
    I don't do SNP design but I don't think 23andMe made their own chips at first (if they have ever). SNPs are chosen based on being informative for population discrimination, with traits being overlaid afterwards
    - vintermann 3mo ago
      I could be wrong, but I do believe they get to choose. What I do know is that none of the big testing companies test exactly the same SNPs, there is some overlap but every test is different. They also change their SNP sets from time to time, 23andMe has changed at least 5 times, and interestingly, their current test isn't the biggest (it tests fewer SNPs than some of their earlier ones).
  - doctorpangloss 3mo ago
    well SNPs aren't useful for drug development, commercialization, medicine, etc. you want whole genome or whole exome sequencing for stuff that is future-looking. they use a process for the present day (quickly becoming the past) of okayish drugs instead of sequencing for a future of cures.

neoden 3mo ago

what is the attack vector btw?

saxonww 3mo ago
Finding yourself in a genetically-determined out group, and being treated differently / discriminated against because of it.
- Noaidi 3mo ago
  Honestly, you don't need someone's genetics for this to happen. They will find out more about you by scraping your socials and spending habits and driving habits. I think this whole fear is over blown anyway. I am in a genetic out group (schizoaffective disorder and yes my risk is genetic) and the benefits of getting my genetics run twice out weighed any risk that might have befallen me.
  - deleted 3mo ago
    [deleted]
  - graemep 3mo ago
    You have control over your habits, and what you reveal on your "socials". I post very little personal. You have no control over your genes.
    - Noaidi 3mo ago
      > You have control over your habits If you have to change your habits because a secret system is watching over you it means they are already controlling you. You cannot hide your bank account, where you drive, what you buy, and on and on and on. And all I need to get your DNA is pick up a cup you drank from or go through your garbage.
    - vintermann 3mo ago
      23andMe bet big that genetic big data would be super valuable. That really didn't work out for them. It turns out that it's more valuable for advertisers to learn if you actually smoke, than that you have a genetic propensity for smoking. Your genotype is just useful for figuring out your phenotype, and in the vast majority of cases, your genetics (especially not at the resolution offered by 23andMe) are not a shortcut to learn your behavior, which is what they're really after. You're probably already classed as some variety of paranoid/dissident for your careful social media preferences...