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"Without ai assistance" - ok, but what about with ai assistance?
by subarctic 3mo ago
"Without ai assistance" - ok, but what about with ai assistance?
- zahlman 3mo agoFor a project like this, relying on AI assistance also makes it effectively dead in the water.
- minimaxir 3mo agoWhy?
- bt1a 3mo ago[flagged]
- all2 3mo agoTime-cost for machines instead of willing knowledgeable humans. The former requires money, the latter requires passion. Arguably, passion for a project is without price.
- zero1009 3mo agoSomeone pays for the AI? That's the new human maintainer.
- bloppe 3mo agoHypothetically, maybe. In practice, probably not.
- CookieCrisp 3mo agoIf it's valuable enough to someone, and it isn't keeping up, someone will pay. If it's not valuable enough for someone to pay, then who cares?
- jpfromlondon 3mo agoPlenty of important things have been born of passion without necessity.
- nozzlegear 3mo agoWho will pay if someone, somewhere is not passionate about it?
- throw1234567891 3mo agoYou can spin up a model locally and pay yourself. Who will maintain the project if the passionate sole maintainer burns out?
- inigyou 3mo agoWhich model works well?
- all2 3mo agoQwen 3.6 27b at q6 works decently well on 24GB of VRAM
- nozzlegear 3mo agoI strictly use only local models, so I agree, but the project was built with Fable so my argument hinges on the assumption that the maintainer is going to continue using Fable and needs to pay for it.
- jack_pp 3mo agoHumans have time-cost too, much higher than machines. Considering SOTA right now, for a project like this it would make more sense for the community to contribute and verify tests, sponsor updates with $.
- wild_pointer 3mo agoTrust
- simonw 3mo agoGood luck implementing and then maintaining a project of this size and complexity at ~100 lines of verified code per human developer per day.
- mwcampbell 3mo agoI wonder how you arrived at that number. Is it perhaps a number that we should aspire to, if we want to write high-quality, maintainable code by hand?
- simonw 3mo agoI've been doing some reading recently around what the literature expects a professional software engineer to produce in a day. In ~1976 Mythical Man Month era it was around 5 lines of fully debugged assembly. Code Complete 2nd edition ~2004 bumped that up to 10-50 delivered lines of code per day. I found other estimates of around 20-60. I need to pull them altogether into a cited article. Based on that plus my own experience I think 100 lines per day of production-level, reviewed and debugged code was a reasonably higher target for a professional software engineer up until just a couple of years ago. Today I'm frequently pushing 2,000 to 4,000 - and that's not vibe coded junk (I can easily hit 10,000+ if I'm not reviewing anything), that's code that I've reviewed and am happy to put my name to. Obviously counting lines of code is a stupid, easily gamed metric. But I still think there's signal there. If you want to build a sophisticated piece of software you're going to have to write a bunch of code to do it. Writing at 1,000+ lines of code per day vs 100 will get you there faster.
- frollogaston 3mo agoNot convinced. I was looking for an answer like "it doesn't actually have parity with CPython." If it does, that's a decent indication that it can be sustained.
- leobuskin 3mo agoIt's possible, but we're at the moment when most of us can ask Fable to implement a custom compiler to a custom target for our favorite language, and even use it as a part of custom solution. Why do I need someone else's implementation? Where's the magic in this project? What's the secret sauce?
- coldtea 3mo ago>Where's the magic in this project? What's the secret sauce? Someone else paying for the tokens. Also someone seeing it through (should that come). Obviously we're not "at the moment when most of us can ask Fable to implement a custom compiler to a custom target for our favorite language, and even use it as a part of custom solution", without thousands to spare and lots of time to shape the solution.
- cyanydeez 3mo agoIt's like we invented a worse github.
- coldtea 3mo agoGimphub.
- dotancohen 3mo agoTo be fair, most of the training data likely came from GitHub.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- hannasanarion 3mo agoEven if it does cost thousands (does it? I genuinely have no idea how to scope such a thing) that might be a good price if a custom compiler to your custom target is something you really want. People have paid far more for far less. If you're a hobbyist trying to compile python to your weird little arduino based thing, then that's a lot of money and you would want to use somebody else's solution, no doubt. But if you're an aerospace company trying to compile for a flight control computer (and I guess you really want to use python for some reason), spending thousands of dollars on tokens to make and maintain a custom compiler could represent serious savings. The big picture impact of AI that I see/anticipate the most is SAAS dying out because AI coding makes this kind of enablement and support software easier to make in-house, and this feels like an example of that, but maybe I'm seeing what I expect to see.
- bt1a 3mo agoit will be impossible to maintain parity with wetware
- up2isomorphism 3mo agoThen the question is why? Because that is an another way of saying donating tokens.