5 ms·

How to Follow a Drummer

37 points by sashyo 3mo ago

sashyo 3mo ago
[flagged]
- Slow_Hand 3mo ago
  Very cool! Thanks for sharing.
- SCPlayz7000 3mo ago
  It was a good read. Thank you for your time.
- wrs 3mo ago
  I’m curious if you compared this against Ableton’s “Tempo Follower” and had any algorithmic (or subjective) observations.
  - sashyo 3mo ago
    i've heard of it but never actually used it, so i can't really compare properly. my inspiration was actually this jojo mayer video: https://youtu.be/URkxEAvavhw?t=248 https://youtu.be/URkxEAvavhw?t=248 My drummer half thought it would be fun so we decided to create DrumMate, and it ended up too good not to share.
- Thraway198 3mo ago
  You do sound a lot like an LLM lol
- dang 3mo ago
  Can you please not post AI-generated or AI-edited comments to HN? It's not allowed here - see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html#generated https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html#generated and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47340079 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47340079. Of course, it's impossible to know for sure what was LLM processed or not, but some of your posts (like this one) have been getting classified that way.
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
stavros 3mo ago
Am I weird for not wanting to read Claude-generated text any more? I tried to figure out what this app is about, but all the Claude verbal tics in the text turned me off and I stopped.
- fourside 3mo ago
  I’m on the same boat. I get why people do it. Writing prose is significantly slower than consuming it, but there’s still a part of me that thinks “if you didn’t think writing was a good use of your time, why would reading this content be a use of mine”. I don’t mind AI-assisted writing but it’s hard to know to how much human editing was involved when the text shows so many AI tells. Almost by definition, AI writing is average it’s hard to justify spending the time when there’s so much content out there.
  - multjoy 3mo ago
    “You didn’t write it, why should I read it?” Seems like a perfectly reasonable stance.
- Slow_Hand 3mo ago
  Not once did this pop on my radar as AI-generated. And if it is that’s fine, because it reads extremely clear and coherent to me. Larger point: I am so sick of HN comment sections filling up with obligatory comments speculating about whether a post is AI-written. At this point I don’t care. People now write with AI. If the writing is deficient in some way, then comment on that. At least that way the “writer” can steer the writing towards greater coherence.
  - forsalebypwner 3mo ago
    It's easy to tell imo in part because of how terse the sentences are: `Obvious in hindsight.` `The clock never jumps.` `No lookahead, no undo.` `A real kick pattern is not a clock.` >Larger point: I am so sick of HN comment sections filling up with obligatory comments speculating about whether a post is AI-written. Gotta disagree wholeheartedly with that - using AI to write for you is really fucking annoying as a reader. It screams to me that the "author" feels the reader's time is worthless, and it homogenizes language in a way that is troubling to say the least.
efitz 3mo ago
I am not a musician but found this fascinating. Thank you for posting.
SubiculumCode 3mo ago
thank you.
SCPlayz7000 3mo ago
I feel like this is AI generated. Is this AI generated?
- SCPlayz7000 3mo ago
  Sorry for my rude comment.
texasexile 3mo ago
This is why most modern music is played with a click track.
- Slow_Hand 3mo ago
  It's not. You're putting the cart before the horse (or attributing the horse to the cart?). Contemporary music began using a click track because it makes techniques like sequencing, non-linear editing in a DAW, and tempo-synced effects far easier to incorporate. Click tracks and rock-solid tempo are also an aesthetic choice. It's far more difficult to sync these techniques to a wavering tempo, so the trend has been for bands and records to conform to the click as the central authority for the pulse in order to unlock the benefits of the above-mentioned techniques. The author's product allows users to slave the click track to the drummer's playing (which may now waver). This opens the door to real-time tempo-following by the click. The band can now push/pull the tempo AND use all of cool synchronized techniques in real time.
josefritzishere 3mo ago
As an actual drummer, who has done studio work... this is not what it feels like at all.
- uhoh-itsmaciek 3mo ago
  Could you elaborate?
doublerebel 3mo ago
The main LLM tell -- both from the instructor/prompt side and the model side -- is: a) how much of the text describes the solutioning, vs b) text that describes the actual problem and real world cases where this was an issue (One anecdote from the author??) As a lifelong drummer, programmer, and music producer -- following a drummer across varying tempo isn't a real problem. Any good drummer who is being relied upon to conduct the tempo will be well-trained enough to hold the tempo. Any great drummer who uses polyrhythms will keep accurate tempo regardless of the subdivisions of the beat -- otherwise the subdivisions would not land in place or sound correct. For songs that have intentional tempo variance, solutions already exist. An app for a virtual band to follow a drummer who can't hold tempo... is a toy for amateur drummers who want to be the lead. Lead drummers are rare (Don Henley, Phil Collins, Bruno Mars, Anderson Paak) but they all know how to nail a tempo. And any good drummer plays with syncopation and time signatures far beyond what this toy tempo estimating app can deduce. DJ/production software (Serato, Ableton) has industry-leading tempo estimation which still only reaches 1/10th of a bpm, which is ~3-10x fatter [0] than what the human ear and good drummers can hold time to [1]. There is no way that this app beats Serato, Ableton, and gets anywhere near to 6ms of human accuracy (transients etc make this hard... I have worked on BPM software). [0] 0.1 bpm at 120 bpm = 50ms [1] Typically ~6-10ms, see e.g. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/309706298_Effect_of_latency_on_performer_interaction_and_subjective_quality_assessment_of_a_digital_musical_instrument https://www.researchgate.net/publication/309706298_Effect_of...

37 points by sashyo 3mo ago

sashyo 3mo ago

[flagged]

Slow_Hand 3mo ago
Very cool! Thanks for sharing.
SCPlayz7000 3mo ago
It was a good read. Thank you for your time.
wrs 3mo ago
I’m curious if you compared this against Ableton’s “Tempo Follower” and had any algorithmic (or subjective) observations.
- sashyo 3mo ago
  i've heard of it but never actually used it, so i can't really compare properly. my inspiration was actually this jojo mayer video: https://youtu.be/URkxEAvavhw?t=248 https://youtu.be/URkxEAvavhw?t=248 My drummer half thought it would be fun so we decided to create DrumMate, and it ended up too good not to share.
Thraway198 3mo ago
You do sound a lot like an LLM lol
dang 3mo ago
Can you please not post AI-generated or AI-edited comments to HN? It's not allowed here - see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html#generated https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html#generated and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47340079 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47340079. Of course, it's impossible to know for sure what was LLM processed or not, but some of your posts (like this one) have been getting classified that way.

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]

stavros 3mo ago

Am I weird for not wanting to read Claude-generated text any more? I tried to figure out what this app is about, but all the Claude verbal tics in the text turned me off and I stopped.

fourside 3mo ago
I’m on the same boat. I get why people do it. Writing prose is significantly slower than consuming it, but there’s still a part of me that thinks “if you didn’t think writing was a good use of your time, why would reading this content be a use of mine”. I don’t mind AI-assisted writing but it’s hard to know to how much human editing was involved when the text shows so many AI tells. Almost by definition, AI writing is average it’s hard to justify spending the time when there’s so much content out there.
- multjoy 3mo ago
  “You didn’t write it, why should I read it?” Seems like a perfectly reasonable stance.
Slow_Hand 3mo ago
Not once did this pop on my radar as AI-generated. And if it is that’s fine, because it reads extremely clear and coherent to me. Larger point: I am so sick of HN comment sections filling up with obligatory comments speculating about whether a post is AI-written. At this point I don’t care. People now write with AI. If the writing is deficient in some way, then comment on that. At least that way the “writer” can steer the writing towards greater coherence.
- forsalebypwner 3mo ago
  It's easy to tell imo in part because of how terse the sentences are: `Obvious in hindsight.` `The clock never jumps.` `No lookahead, no undo.` `A real kick pattern is not a clock.` >Larger point: I am so sick of HN comment sections filling up with obligatory comments speculating about whether a post is AI-written. Gotta disagree wholeheartedly with that - using AI to write for you is really fucking annoying as a reader. It screams to me that the "author" feels the reader's time is worthless, and it homogenizes language in a way that is troubling to say the least.

efitz 3mo ago

I am not a musician but found this fascinating. Thank you for posting.

SubiculumCode 3mo ago

thank you.

SCPlayz7000 3mo ago

I feel like this is AI generated. Is this AI generated?

SCPlayz7000 3mo ago
Sorry for my rude comment.

texasexile 3mo ago

This is why most modern music is played with a click track.

Slow_Hand 3mo ago
It's not. You're putting the cart before the horse (or attributing the horse to the cart?). Contemporary music began using a click track because it makes techniques like sequencing, non-linear editing in a DAW, and tempo-synced effects far easier to incorporate. Click tracks and rock-solid tempo are also an aesthetic choice. It's far more difficult to sync these techniques to a wavering tempo, so the trend has been for bands and records to conform to the click as the central authority for the pulse in order to unlock the benefits of the above-mentioned techniques. The author's product allows users to slave the click track to the drummer's playing (which may now waver). This opens the door to real-time tempo-following by the click. The band can now push/pull the tempo AND use all of cool synchronized techniques in real time.

josefritzishere 3mo ago

As an actual drummer, who has done studio work... this is not what it feels like at all.

uhoh-itsmaciek 3mo ago
Could you elaborate?

doublerebel 3mo ago

The main LLM tell -- both from the instructor/prompt side and the model side -- is: a) how much of the text describes the solutioning, vs b) text that describes the actual problem and real world cases where this was an issue (One anecdote from the author??) As a lifelong drummer, programmer, and music producer -- following a drummer across varying tempo isn't a real problem. Any good drummer who is being relied upon to conduct the tempo will be well-trained enough to hold the tempo. Any great drummer who uses polyrhythms will keep accurate tempo regardless of the subdivisions of the beat -- otherwise the subdivisions would not land in place or sound correct. For songs that have intentional tempo variance, solutions already exist. An app for a virtual band to follow a drummer who can't hold tempo... is a toy for amateur drummers who want to be the lead. Lead drummers are rare (Don Henley, Phil Collins, Bruno Mars, Anderson Paak) but they all know how to nail a tempo. And any good drummer plays with syncopation and time signatures far beyond what this toy tempo estimating app can deduce. DJ/production software (Serato, Ableton) has industry-leading tempo estimation which still only reaches 1/10th of a bpm, which is ~3-10x fatter [0] than what the human ear and good drummers can hold time to [1]. There is no way that this app beats Serato, Ableton, and gets anywhere near to 6ms of human accuracy (transients etc make this hard... I have worked on BPM software). [0] 0.1 bpm at 120 bpm = 50ms [1] Typically ~6-10ms, see e.g. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/309706298_Effect_of_latency_on_performer_interaction_and_subjective_quality_assessment_of_a_digital_musical_instrument https://www.researchgate.net/publication/309706298_Effect_of...