3 ms·

Dario tells the truth. If you look at everything through their safe AGI mission it all makes sense. They are not bs'ing about that. Also I think most people jus

Dario tells the truth. If you look at everything through their safe AGI mission it all makes sense. They are not bs'ing about that. Also I think most people just read headlines or 10 second clips and make false extrapolations from there. (BTW Anthropic only exists because Sam Altman is a liar, Dario admitted this.)

nmfisher 3mo ago
> If you look at everything through their safe AGI mission it all makes sense. Except for, you know, all the outside investors and the forthcoming IPO.
- adahn 3mo ago
  A no-investment policy would take them off the scene entirely. Essentially handing over the reins to OpenAI, Google, and others. Their position is something close to "if I don't do it, someone worse will". Related: https://80000hours.org/2012/03/the-replaceability-effect-working-in-unethical-industries-part-1/ https://80000hours.org/2012/03/the-replaceability-effect-wor... There's a more nuanced discussion that could be had about how to balance relevance with outside influence. But at a foundational level it should be acknowledged that the tradeoff exists, and that receiving outside investment can't alone be seen as evidence of corruption. Besides that, there's more that can be said about other things like their corporate structure or the degree to which they accelerated the AI race.
  - bloppe 3mo ago
    "if I don't do it, someone worse will" Of course that's what Dario thinks because that's what every tech CEO thinks. Dario, Sam, Sundar, probably many Chinese CEOs as well. It's what everyone thinks. That's why they're competing so fiercely with one another. That's why they basically make all the same decisions. That's why we need properly open source AI.
    - solenoid0937 3mo ago
      Open source AI fails first contact with sufficiently-intelligent-as-to-be-dangerous AI. The day Mythos class models are open sourced will not be a good day. I don't think you understand the impact that will have on the world and on cyber defenders everywhere. It will be pure chaos. Even if you don't think Mythos-class is the bar, open source has to stop at some point, you don't hand everyone a superweapon.
      - bloppe 3mo ago
        Every single one of those sentences is highly dubious. Cyber-defenders would be pretty jazzed about having easier access to Mythos-class models. Cyber-defense is easier with better tools.
        solenoid0937 3mo ago
        Cyber defenders already have access to Mythos class models at most companies with the biggest user facing products and services. They are using them extensively (including on OSS deps) Handing every skiddie and nation state and APT and hacker group access to Mythos does not help cyber defenders Even if you don't think Mythos is a big deal: At a certain point models become smart enough as to be dangerous, and you don't give everyone a superweapon. Open source has an end of the line sooner or later.
        bloppe 3mo ago
        Let's assume for the sake of argument that Anthropic has a monopoly over significantly superior models. They will never be a perfect gatekeeper. The number of black hat hackers with access they shouldn't have will be highly correlated with the total number with access, so to be "conservative" Anthropic would deny access to many white hat hackers who should have access (like my company, which runs cloud infra for hundreds of other companies but is nonetheless too small to be considered). It only takes a few bad apples to ruin the bunch, and once a black hatter has access, all the white hatters without would be exposed. At that point, it would be better for everyone to have access. Luckily, Anthropic has no such monopoly, so the point is sorta moot
- solenoid0937 3mo ago
  You expect AGI to be built without additional investor money?

nmfisher 3mo ago

> If you look at everything through their safe AGI mission it all makes sense. Except for, you know, all the outside investors and the forthcoming IPO.

adahn 3mo ago
A no-investment policy would take them off the scene entirely. Essentially handing over the reins to OpenAI, Google, and others. Their position is something close to "if I don't do it, someone worse will". Related: https://80000hours.org/2012/03/the-replaceability-effect-working-in-unethical-industries-part-1/ https://80000hours.org/2012/03/the-replaceability-effect-wor... There's a more nuanced discussion that could be had about how to balance relevance with outside influence. But at a foundational level it should be acknowledged that the tradeoff exists, and that receiving outside investment can't alone be seen as evidence of corruption. Besides that, there's more that can be said about other things like their corporate structure or the degree to which they accelerated the AI race.
- bloppe 3mo ago
  "if I don't do it, someone worse will" Of course that's what Dario thinks because that's what every tech CEO thinks. Dario, Sam, Sundar, probably many Chinese CEOs as well. It's what everyone thinks. That's why they're competing so fiercely with one another. That's why they basically make all the same decisions. That's why we need properly open source AI.
  - solenoid0937 3mo ago
    Open source AI fails first contact with sufficiently-intelligent-as-to-be-dangerous AI. The day Mythos class models are open sourced will not be a good day. I don't think you understand the impact that will have on the world and on cyber defenders everywhere. It will be pure chaos. Even if you don't think Mythos-class is the bar, open source has to stop at some point, you don't hand everyone a superweapon.
    - bloppe 3mo ago
      Every single one of those sentences is highly dubious. Cyber-defenders would be pretty jazzed about having easier access to Mythos-class models. Cyber-defense is easier with better tools.
      - solenoid0937 3mo ago
        Cyber defenders already have access to Mythos class models at most companies with the biggest user facing products and services. They are using them extensively (including on OSS deps) Handing every skiddie and nation state and APT and hacker group access to Mythos does not help cyber defenders Even if you don't think Mythos is a big deal: At a certain point models become smart enough as to be dangerous, and you don't give everyone a superweapon. Open source has an end of the line sooner or later.
        bloppe 3mo ago
        Let's assume for the sake of argument that Anthropic has a monopoly over significantly superior models. They will never be a perfect gatekeeper. The number of black hat hackers with access they shouldn't have will be highly correlated with the total number with access, so to be "conservative" Anthropic would deny access to many white hat hackers who should have access (like my company, which runs cloud infra for hundreds of other companies but is nonetheless too small to be considered). It only takes a few bad apples to ruin the bunch, and once a black hatter has access, all the white hatters without would be exposed. At that point, it would be better for everyone to have access. Luckily, Anthropic has no such monopoly, so the point is sorta moot
solenoid0937 3mo ago
You expect AGI to be built without additional investor money?