4 ms·

Should domestic workers not be surveilled while doing their job? I get the threat of pervasive AI but this hardly seems like it.

by gsibble 3mo ago

fithisux 3mo ago
Then, stay home if you feel unsafe.
bigyabai 3mo ago
Forget domestic workers, shouldn't you be surveilled whenever you're alone and unattended? When the panopticon is flipped inwards, everyone scrapes together an excuse for why their solitude is more important than others.
- Spooky23 3mo ago
  Exactly. Won’t someone think of the children?
thatguy0900 3mo ago
Somehow we've made it the vast majority of human history without it. Or at least surveillance that is generally not great. I would wager real money that there is going to be psychological effects of 100% accurate at all times complete surveillance of a person everywhere outside of their own homes (for now, I'm sure the time is coming for that as well)
- t-3 3mo ago
  A lot of people who live in dense environments are already surveilled every minute of every day, the surveillance is just not centralized. At home a voice assistant listens to everything, and the apartment building probably has corridor cameras. On the street cameras watch from neighbors with doorbell or security cams, store and parking lot security cams, traffic cameras, gopros, random streamers etc. If they work in retail most of their workplace will be on camera all the time. What would have psychological effects is an authoritarian nanny state monitoring those feeds all the time for any potential infraction, not the surveillance which is routine and actually pretty reasonable.
- pandaman 3mo ago
  We also had quite severe punishment for crime by the current standards in the vast majority of human history. I'd be fine changing cameras for stockades and gallows, and dealing with car and bike thieves the same way we used to deal with horse thieves but would you?
- lotsofpulp 3mo ago
  >Somehow we've made it the vast majority of human history without it. That isn’t a high bar. It’s only recently that the greater accessibility of cameras and recording devices that we get insight into just how much abuse there is, such as that experienced by women or by police towards minorities.
swatcoder 3mo ago
That depends entirely on whether you want to culture a humane trust society or a transactional surveillance society.
- paytonjjones 3mo ago
  I think everyone wants a high trust society but you can't just remove all guardrails and expect that to be the result. The causality goes the other way.
  - newspaper1 3mo ago
    I would absolutely support the surveillance of CEOs and board members. They have demonstrated themselves, as a class, to not be trustworthy. I think as a society, we should be reviewing Alex Karp's decision making for instance.
    - b112 3mo ago
      There are hundreds of millions of CEOs, and board members. Every single company in the West has a CEO and a board. I've heard of some bad behaviour. I haven't heard of millions of cases of bad behaviour. Do you have numbers to back up your assertions?
      - newspaper1 3mo ago
        There are orders of magnitude more workers than there are CEOs and board members. If surveiling workers is on the table, certainly the much easier and higher return task of monitoring this much smaller group, who has the potential to do much more damage to society, is a better idea.
      - graemep 3mo ago
        > Every single company in the West has a CEO and a board. Outside the West too!
      - antonvs 3mo ago
geraneum 3mo ago
> I get the threat of pervasive AI I think this contradicts with your first sentence.
newspaper1 3mo ago
No worker should be surveilled while doing their job. Only weak and insecure management would even consider something like that.
- t-3 3mo ago
  It's often necessary for liability and anywhere cash is handled it's much better for everyone to have cameras and drawer logs than just blindly trusting your employees.
chairmansteve 3mo ago
"Should domestic workers not be surveilled while doing their job?" Depends on whether you want to contribute to the creation of a dystopia. You could maybe make the effort to hire someone you trust. And put any true valuables in a safe.

Should domestic workers not be surveilled while doing their job? I get the threat of pervasive AI but this hardly seems like it.

by gsibble 3mo ago

Should domestic workers not be surveilled while doing their job? I get the threat of pervasive AI but this hardly seems like it.

fithisux 3mo ago

Then, stay home if you feel unsafe.

bigyabai 3mo ago

Forget domestic workers, shouldn't you be surveilled whenever you're alone and unattended? When the panopticon is flipped inwards, everyone scrapes together an excuse for why their solitude is more important than others.

Spooky23 3mo ago
Exactly. Won’t someone think of the children?

thatguy0900 3mo ago

Somehow we've made it the vast majority of human history without it. Or at least surveillance that is generally not great. I would wager real money that there is going to be psychological effects of 100% accurate at all times complete surveillance of a person everywhere outside of their own homes (for now, I'm sure the time is coming for that as well)

t-3 3mo ago
A lot of people who live in dense environments are already surveilled every minute of every day, the surveillance is just not centralized. At home a voice assistant listens to everything, and the apartment building probably has corridor cameras. On the street cameras watch from neighbors with doorbell or security cams, store and parking lot security cams, traffic cameras, gopros, random streamers etc. If they work in retail most of their workplace will be on camera all the time. What would have psychological effects is an authoritarian nanny state monitoring those feeds all the time for any potential infraction, not the surveillance which is routine and actually pretty reasonable.
pandaman 3mo ago
We also had quite severe punishment for crime by the current standards in the vast majority of human history. I'd be fine changing cameras for stockades and gallows, and dealing with car and bike thieves the same way we used to deal with horse thieves but would you?
lotsofpulp 3mo ago
>Somehow we've made it the vast majority of human history without it. That isn’t a high bar. It’s only recently that the greater accessibility of cameras and recording devices that we get insight into just how much abuse there is, such as that experienced by women or by police towards minorities.

swatcoder 3mo ago

That depends entirely on whether you want to culture a humane trust society or a transactional surveillance society.

paytonjjones 3mo ago
I think everyone wants a high trust society but you can't just remove all guardrails and expect that to be the result. The causality goes the other way.
- newspaper1 3mo ago
  I would absolutely support the surveillance of CEOs and board members. They have demonstrated themselves, as a class, to not be trustworthy. I think as a society, we should be reviewing Alex Karp's decision making for instance.
  - b112 3mo ago
    There are hundreds of millions of CEOs, and board members. Every single company in the West has a CEO and a board. I've heard of some bad behaviour. I haven't heard of millions of cases of bad behaviour. Do you have numbers to back up your assertions?
    - newspaper1 3mo ago
      There are orders of magnitude more workers than there are CEOs and board members. If surveiling workers is on the table, certainly the much easier and higher return task of monitoring this much smaller group, who has the potential to do much more damage to society, is a better idea.
    - graemep 3mo ago
      > Every single company in the West has a CEO and a board. Outside the West too!
    - antonvs 3mo ago

geraneum 3mo ago

> I get the threat of pervasive AI I think this contradicts with your first sentence.

newspaper1 3mo ago

No worker should be surveilled while doing their job. Only weak and insecure management would even consider something like that.

t-3 3mo ago
It's often necessary for liability and anywhere cash is handled it's much better for everyone to have cameras and drawer logs than just blindly trusting your employees.

chairmansteve 3mo ago

"Should domestic workers not be surveilled while doing their job?" Depends on whether you want to contribute to the creation of a dystopia. You could maybe make the effort to hire someone you trust. And put any true valuables in a safe.