6 ms·

It is a bit strange why EU countries allow their own credibility and legitimacy get steadily dragged down, bit by bit, by all these thousands of dubious stateme

It is a bit strange why EU countries allow their own credibility and legitimacy get steadily dragged down, bit by bit, by all these thousands of dubious statements, tricks, manoeuvres, and so on. Do they just not care about weakening their own societies?

rckt 3mo ago
The govs consist of people who have their own agendas. Mass surveillance is something they all are aligned on.
graemep 3mo ago
Much the same reasons why the UK, US etc. do much the same. It is slowed down a bit in some countries with strong constitutions or resistance to it, but the governments all want it.
- mdp2021 3mo ago
  > "You have to understand that times have changed, it's not like before... Now we have children, the children, the children, children, children and the t-word." ~~ keir starmer (I'll see if I can still find the source. If anybody beats me to it, appreciated.)
SpicyLemonZest 3mo ago
I guess I'm not sure what's dubious here. The article says they're circumventing "democratic control bodies", but I don't know what that means (perhaps it's a more common phrase in German?), and it sounds like the European Parliament can still vote to reject Chat Control if they don't want it. The article strongly implies there's something dubious going on here, but to me what would be dubious is a procedure that prevents the parliament from voting on Chat Control.
- flumpcakes 3mo ago
  Perhaps the article is biased. The simple fact is that a law that existed since 2011 and expired in April is now back in effect. So we are back where we were on February. I don't remember moving from an anti-democratic hell scape to serene democratic beauty back in April so it's probably a nothing-burger. I often see news articles that trade on the fact the general populace aren't professional bureaucrats and so frame anything happening in unpopular ways.
  - int_19h 3mo ago
    Perhaps your democracy has been in decline for some time now?
    - SpicyLemonZest 3mo ago
      But why should we think EU democracy is in decline in the first place? Is there some evidence that EU citizens oppose CSAM scanning and political institutions aren't responsive to that? I'm not an expert, but my understanding from polls and such is that CSAM scanning generally has popular support, and the only reason it's controversial is the passionate advocacy and lobbying of privacy groups. (Of course, that's not necessarily anti-democratic, if the privacy groups have important information about Chat Control they think the general public might not have realized.)
theodric 3mo ago
They hold all the cards, and have means - above-board or questionable, but effective nonetheless - to enact their will. Do you remember the Treaty of Lisbon referendumS, plural? Just keep asking the question until the plebs answer correctly.
deleted 3mo ago
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rckt 3mo ago

The govs consist of people who have their own agendas. Mass surveillance is something they all are aligned on.

graemep 3mo ago

Much the same reasons why the UK, US etc. do much the same. It is slowed down a bit in some countries with strong constitutions or resistance to it, but the governments all want it.

mdp2021 3mo ago
> "You have to understand that times have changed, it's not like before... Now we have children, the children, the children, children, children and the t-word." ~~ keir starmer (I'll see if I can still find the source. If anybody beats me to it, appreciated.)

SpicyLemonZest 3mo ago

I guess I'm not sure what's dubious here. The article says they're circumventing "democratic control bodies", but I don't know what that means (perhaps it's a more common phrase in German?), and it sounds like the European Parliament can still vote to reject Chat Control if they don't want it. The article strongly implies there's something dubious going on here, but to me what would be dubious is a procedure that prevents the parliament from voting on Chat Control.

flumpcakes 3mo ago
Perhaps the article is biased. The simple fact is that a law that existed since 2011 and expired in April is now back in effect. So we are back where we were on February. I don't remember moving from an anti-democratic hell scape to serene democratic beauty back in April so it's probably a nothing-burger. I often see news articles that trade on the fact the general populace aren't professional bureaucrats and so frame anything happening in unpopular ways.
- int_19h 3mo ago
  Perhaps your democracy has been in decline for some time now?
  - SpicyLemonZest 3mo ago
    But why should we think EU democracy is in decline in the first place? Is there some evidence that EU citizens oppose CSAM scanning and political institutions aren't responsive to that? I'm not an expert, but my understanding from polls and such is that CSAM scanning generally has popular support, and the only reason it's controversial is the passionate advocacy and lobbying of privacy groups. (Of course, that's not necessarily anti-democratic, if the privacy groups have important information about Chat Control they think the general public might not have realized.)

theodric 3mo ago

They hold all the cards, and have means - above-board or questionable, but effective nonetheless - to enact their will. Do you remember the Treaty of Lisbon referendumS, plural? Just keep asking the question until the plebs answer correctly.

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]