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How do you mean OpenAI lets you use your own harness? I'm under the impression that a custom harness requires the OpenAI SDK, which requires api tokens rather t

How do you mean OpenAI lets you use your own harness? I'm under the impression that a custom harness requires the OpenAI SDK, which requires api tokens rather than plus/pro accounts.

HumanOstrich 3mo ago
Anthropic is the one that prohibits harnesses other than Claude Code on subscription plans and bans users for disobeying. OpenAI officially allows that with subscriptions.
hakunin 3mo ago
You must've missed the OpenAI's response to Anthropic forcing everyone to their own harness if they want subscription pricing: official endorsement of custom harnesses like opencode and pi even when used with Codex subscription. I think they even partnered with opencode or something like that (don't remember).
lhl 3mo ago
https://x.com/thsottiaux/status/2058071172361998482 https://x.com/thsottiaux/status/2058071172361998482 "A little secret. About 5% of our production traffic is on the Pi harness, about another 5% is on OpenCode. Reminder you can use your ChatGPT account in a flourishing set of other tools. We’ll continue to make Codex awesome, but you have options."
- deleted 3mo ago
  [deleted]
- solenoid0937 3mo ago
  They will only do this while they have no users. Once they are compute constrained they won't let you do this anymore
  - selectodude 3mo ago
    That’s the beauty of using an open harness. I can jump ship if that ever happens.
smoe 3mo ago
Not just harnesses, you can even use the subscription in CI/CD. That, plus the fact that web chat does not count toward the same limits, is why I think the Codex personal plan is easily 10x the value of Claude Code. https://developers.openai.com/codex/auth/ci-cd-auth https://developers.openai.com/codex/auth/ci-cd-auth
- 7thpower 3mo ago
  How are you using it in ci/cd?
- gck1 3mo ago
  I'm never going back to claude from codex, including for the reasons you mentioned, but it must be said that web chat inference on ChatGPT is magic incantation, and I'm almost certain they're not serving the same models there as in Codex. Claude web definitely feels like it's the same models behind as in API, with much less extra behavior/layers that make it behave differently.
miki123211 3mo ago
OpenAI doesn't require that; only Anthropic does. OpenAI's harness is fully open source[1], and (AFAIK) doesn't come with any kind of signed-build request integrity verification like Claude does. And by that logic, if you're allowed to use their API with a fork of Codex that you yourself compiled, there's nothing stopping you from making some other harness act like such a fork. [1] https://github.com/openai/codex https://github.com/openai/codex
- lmwnshn 3mo ago
  And although Codex Desktop is not open source (AFAIK), it does expose CDP and appserver which allowed me to build a Greasemonkey-like plugin system on top of it. It's surprisingly powerful, you can add transcript annotations, programmatically control the side panels, integrate a native-looking account switcher, and so on.
  - walthamstow 3mo ago
    This sounds really cool. Do you have the source published anywhere?
    - lmwnshn 3mo ago
      Yup! MIT licensed, do whatever you want, you can also just use it directly with nodejs installed through `npx clankerbend` [0]. The screenshot on the github repo links you to a YouTube demo. Warning: I use this daily myself for work, but beyond me arguing with it to get the CDP architecture, this was completely vibe-coded. I mostly use vim mode (jump to line, jump to prev/next user message) and the account switcher. [0] https://github.com/onewillai/clankerbend https://github.com/onewillai/clankerbend

How do you mean OpenAI lets you use your own harness? I'm under the impression that a custom harness requires the OpenAI SDK, which requires api tokens rather than plus/pro accounts.

HumanOstrich 3mo ago

Anthropic is the one that prohibits harnesses other than Claude Code on subscription plans and bans users for disobeying. OpenAI officially allows that with subscriptions.

hakunin 3mo ago

You must've missed the OpenAI's response to Anthropic forcing everyone to their own harness if they want subscription pricing: official endorsement of custom harnesses like opencode and pi even when used with Codex subscription. I think they even partnered with opencode or something like that (don't remember).

lhl 3mo ago

https://x.com/thsottiaux/status/2058071172361998482 https://x.com/thsottiaux/status/2058071172361998482 "A little secret. About 5% of our production traffic is on the Pi harness, about another 5% is on OpenCode. Reminder you can use your ChatGPT account in a flourishing set of other tools. We’ll continue to make Codex awesome, but you have options."

deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
solenoid0937 3mo ago
They will only do this while they have no users. Once they are compute constrained they won't let you do this anymore
- selectodude 3mo ago
  That’s the beauty of using an open harness. I can jump ship if that ever happens.

smoe 3mo ago

Not just harnesses, you can even use the subscription in CI/CD. That, plus the fact that web chat does not count toward the same limits, is why I think the Codex personal plan is easily 10x the value of Claude Code. https://developers.openai.com/codex/auth/ci-cd-auth https://developers.openai.com/codex/auth/ci-cd-auth

7thpower 3mo ago
How are you using it in ci/cd?
gck1 3mo ago
I'm never going back to claude from codex, including for the reasons you mentioned, but it must be said that web chat inference on ChatGPT is magic incantation, and I'm almost certain they're not serving the same models there as in Codex. Claude web definitely feels like it's the same models behind as in API, with much less extra behavior/layers that make it behave differently.

miki123211 3mo ago

OpenAI doesn't require that; only Anthropic does. OpenAI's harness is fully open source[1], and (AFAIK) doesn't come with any kind of signed-build request integrity verification like Claude does. And by that logic, if you're allowed to use their API with a fork of Codex that you yourself compiled, there's nothing stopping you from making some other harness act like such a fork. [1] https://github.com/openai/codex https://github.com/openai/codex

lmwnshn 3mo ago
And although Codex Desktop is not open source (AFAIK), it does expose CDP and appserver which allowed me to build a Greasemonkey-like plugin system on top of it. It's surprisingly powerful, you can add transcript annotations, programmatically control the side panels, integrate a native-looking account switcher, and so on.
- walthamstow 3mo ago
  This sounds really cool. Do you have the source published anywhere?
  - lmwnshn 3mo ago
    Yup! MIT licensed, do whatever you want, you can also just use it directly with nodejs installed through `npx clankerbend` [0]. The screenshot on the github repo links you to a YouTube demo. Warning: I use this daily myself for work, but beyond me arguing with it to get the CDP architecture, this was completely vibe-coded. I mostly use vim mode (jump to line, jump to prev/next user message) and the account switcher. [0] https://github.com/onewillai/clankerbend https://github.com/onewillai/clankerbend