4 ms·

> Doubt Can you substantiate your doubt with even one piece of hard evidence?

by hammock 3mo ago

matheusmoreira 3mo ago
Sure. The NSA exists, and it routinely violates the rights of the USA's own citizens, the ones that actually have constitutional rights. The idea that it would suddenly draw the line on foreigners is just absurd.
- jonnybgood 3mo ago
  Yes, the US has an intelligence agency called the NSA, which works with intelligence agencies in the five eyes. There is something called the five eyes agreement that does draw that line.
  - matheusmoreira 3mo ago
    > There is something called the five eyes agreement that does draw that line. Believe such nonsense at your own peril. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_espionage_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_espionage_in_the_Unite... > In 1951, Mossad and the Central Intelligence Agency agreed not to spy on each other and US and Israeli services cooperated closely since then. > Nevertheless, there were strong indications afterwards of ongoing Israeli espionage against the United States, confirmed by the 1985 arrest of Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard, one of the most damaging security leaks in US history. > Israeli espionage reached a high-profile peak in the mid-1980s, shattering assumptions that allies "do not spy on each other".
    - senordevnyc 3mo ago
      I'm curious what peril your cynicism about the five eyes agreement has saved you from.
      - matheusmoreira 3mo ago
        The peril of sleeping easy at night, comfortable in the fantasy where no one would ever spy on me just because they pinky promised not to. Not keen on believing evil bits either.
- MomsAVoxell 3mo ago
  It violates everyones’ human rights - not just the US’ own citizens - because human rights are universal whether some American thinks it or not.
- hammock 3mo ago
  You can probably share specific evidence of NSA violating U.S. citizen rights. But can you share specific evidence if NSA spying on a five eyes nation or Israel post-Snowden?
Hizonner 3mo ago
Can you substantiate your certainty with anything other than the public statements of people whose job is to lie about things like that?
crewindream 3mo ago
1. I think burden of proof is on the opposite side. (Previous legislations/directives were circumvented without problem) 2.Asking for hard evidence of top spies secretly spying on heads of other states is … (not sure if there is a word for it; some blend between: unrealistic, unreasonable and oxymoron’ish. If they do their job well, you will not find it out, also it might be illegal or punishable to present such evidence)

> Doubt Can you substantiate your doubt with even one piece of hard evidence?

by hammock 3mo ago

> Doubt Can you substantiate your doubt with even one piece of hard evidence?

Sure. The NSA exists, and it routinely violates the rights of the USA's own citizens, the ones that actually have constitutional rights. The idea that it would suddenly draw the line on foreigners is just absurd.

jonnybgood 3mo ago
Yes, the US has an intelligence agency called the NSA, which works with intelligence agencies in the five eyes. There is something called the five eyes agreement that does draw that line.
- matheusmoreira 3mo ago
  > There is something called the five eyes agreement that does draw that line. Believe such nonsense at your own peril. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_espionage_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_espionage_in_the_Unite... > In 1951, Mossad and the Central Intelligence Agency agreed not to spy on each other and US and Israeli services cooperated closely since then. > Nevertheless, there were strong indications afterwards of ongoing Israeli espionage against the United States, confirmed by the 1985 arrest of Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard, one of the most damaging security leaks in US history. > Israeli espionage reached a high-profile peak in the mid-1980s, shattering assumptions that allies "do not spy on each other".
  - senordevnyc 3mo ago
    I'm curious what peril your cynicism about the five eyes agreement has saved you from.
    - matheusmoreira 3mo ago
      The peril of sleeping easy at night, comfortable in the fantasy where no one would ever spy on me just because they pinky promised not to. Not keen on believing evil bits either.
MomsAVoxell 3mo ago
It violates everyones’ human rights - not just the US’ own citizens - because human rights are universal whether some American thinks it or not.
hammock 3mo ago
You can probably share specific evidence of NSA violating U.S. citizen rights. But can you share specific evidence if NSA spying on a five eyes nation or Israel post-Snowden?

Hizonner 3mo ago

Can you substantiate your certainty with anything other than the public statements of people whose job is to lie about things like that?

crewindream 3mo ago

1. I think burden of proof is on the opposite side. (Previous legislations/directives were circumvented without problem) 2.Asking for hard evidence of top spies secretly spying on heads of other states is … (not sure if there is a word for it; some blend between: unrealistic, unreasonable and oxymoron’ish. If they do their job well, you will not find it out, also it might be illegal or punishable to present such evidence)