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> That which I do code, I am still coding by hand, though I am dealing with other people's Claude output and I am really unimpressed by it. It's often rather cr

> That which I do code, I am still coding by hand, though I am dealing with other people's Claude output and I am really unimpressed by it. It's often rather crass. Unfortunately the point of code is rarely to impress people (certainly not other engineers) or to avoid being "crass." 99.99% of code exists to achieve business outcomes, and velocity matters a lot in many contexts. A lot more than elegance or impressiveness. The platform risk is a valid concern but alleviated by China's theft and redistribution of open models.

dofm 4mo ago
I'm not talking about impressing people. We used to be concerned about code quality. Are we not anymore? Crassness was a signal. Still is, to me — in a human I find that people who write crass code are going to cause me trouble.
- estearum 4mo ago
  "Code quality" encompasses a lot of dimensions, one of which is impressing your colleagues, and many of which there's virtually no reason to care about now.
  - Arainach 4mo ago
    On the contrary, it's more important than ever. With ever more code being generated, it's essential that the code be understandable and maintainable - by human and machine.
    - michaelchisari 4mo ago
      And quality is the new differentiator when everyone can generate slop.
- pydry 4mo ago
  Nobody cares about code quality /s They only care about the things which you can only get with good code quality like reliability and speed of development.
  - estearum 4mo ago
    Right, and to the extent that your coding practices contribute to reliability and speed of development, they are "of quality." Now do the same exercise for "impressiveness" and "crassness." Here, I'll do it for you: > Nobody cares about code quality /s > They only care about the things which you can only get with good code quality like impressiveness and lack of crassness. Sounds silly doesn't it?
    - pydry 4mo ago
      Your comment made no sense to me whatsoever.
      - estearum 4mo ago
        GP was complaining about Claude's "lack of impressiveness" and "crassness." I said that's silly. You said "code quality matters". I said "it's not clear that lack of impressiveness and crassness have anything to do with code quality."
        dofm 4mo ago
        Some evidence that crassness is going to matter: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48798815 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48798815
slopinthebag 4mo ago
It doesn’t matter what materials or techniques you use to build a house. 99.99% of construction exists to achieve business outcomes, and velocity matters a lot more than using the right materials or techniques. Of course the house must pass safety inspections and stuff, but the materials and techniques don’t matter one bit for that. All that matters is you achieve the desired outcome, and I will ignore the glaring fact that you achieve the desired outcome by using the right materials and techniques. The materials and techniques don’t matter, just the outcome.
- estearum 4mo ago
  No the materials and techniques matter a lot. This is why we need to build houses with sticks and jute cord, just like we always have. It's vital also that we paint our special symbols above the door to ward off the spirits. It's insane to me that you're implying we could build houses with pre-fabricated materials or pneumatic nail guns and still somehow "have houses?" No sticks/jute cord and special symbols, then no house.
  - slopinthebag 4mo ago
    The argument isn’t to not use better materials or techniques, it’s that inferior materials and techniques are fine because they don’t impact the end result, which is so obviously false when it comes to pretty much anything, but supposedly true when it comes to software.
    - estearum 4mo ago
      I'm not sure who you saw arguing for inferior materials and techniques, but let me know when you find them. What you saw in this thread was someone arguing against the dimensions of "impressiveness" and "crassness" as valid things to care about when it comes to code. It's your mistake to assume that those are related to any meaningful concept of actual quality.
      - dofm 4mo ago
techpression 4mo ago
I’ve worked at many companies where this idea of velocity was claimed to matter, and it never did. The only thing it mattered for was to make it look like middle managers were worth anything, but the success was always in the foundational idea/concept.

dofm 4mo ago

I'm not talking about impressing people. We used to be concerned about code quality. Are we not anymore? Crassness was a signal. Still is, to me — in a human I find that people who write crass code are going to cause me trouble.

estearum 4mo ago
"Code quality" encompasses a lot of dimensions, one of which is impressing your colleagues, and many of which there's virtually no reason to care about now.
- Arainach 4mo ago
  On the contrary, it's more important than ever. With ever more code being generated, it's essential that the code be understandable and maintainable - by human and machine.
  - michaelchisari 4mo ago
    And quality is the new differentiator when everyone can generate slop.
pydry 4mo ago
Nobody cares about code quality /s They only care about the things which you can only get with good code quality like reliability and speed of development.
- estearum 4mo ago
  Right, and to the extent that your coding practices contribute to reliability and speed of development, they are "of quality." Now do the same exercise for "impressiveness" and "crassness." Here, I'll do it for you: > Nobody cares about code quality /s > They only care about the things which you can only get with good code quality like impressiveness and lack of crassness. Sounds silly doesn't it?
  - pydry 4mo ago
    Your comment made no sense to me whatsoever.
    - estearum 4mo ago
      GP was complaining about Claude's "lack of impressiveness" and "crassness." I said that's silly. You said "code quality matters". I said "it's not clear that lack of impressiveness and crassness have anything to do with code quality."
      - dofm 4mo ago
        Some evidence that crassness is going to matter: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48798815 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48798815

slopinthebag 4mo ago

It doesn’t matter what materials or techniques you use to build a house. 99.99% of construction exists to achieve business outcomes, and velocity matters a lot more than using the right materials or techniques. Of course the house must pass safety inspections and stuff, but the materials and techniques don’t matter one bit for that. All that matters is you achieve the desired outcome, and I will ignore the glaring fact that you achieve the desired outcome by using the right materials and techniques. The materials and techniques don’t matter, just the outcome.

estearum 4mo ago
No the materials and techniques matter a lot. This is why we need to build houses with sticks and jute cord, just like we always have. It's vital also that we paint our special symbols above the door to ward off the spirits. It's insane to me that you're implying we could build houses with pre-fabricated materials or pneumatic nail guns and still somehow "have houses?" No sticks/jute cord and special symbols, then no house.
- slopinthebag 4mo ago
  The argument isn’t to not use better materials or techniques, it’s that inferior materials and techniques are fine because they don’t impact the end result, which is so obviously false when it comes to pretty much anything, but supposedly true when it comes to software.
  - estearum 4mo ago
    I'm not sure who you saw arguing for inferior materials and techniques, but let me know when you find them. What you saw in this thread was someone arguing against the dimensions of "impressiveness" and "crassness" as valid things to care about when it comes to code. It's your mistake to assume that those are related to any meaningful concept of actual quality.
    - dofm 4mo ago

techpression 4mo ago

I’ve worked at many companies where this idea of velocity was claimed to matter, and it never did. The only thing it mattered for was to make it look like middle managers were worth anything, but the success was always in the foundational idea/concept.