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Behind the scenes with the Midjourney scanner [video]
- bparsons 3mo agoDoes this whole thing seem fishy to anyone else?
- ajrouvoet 3mo agoThe announcement video has some quality that made it hard to shake the feeling that I’m watching a black mirror episode. Or a sequel to Ex Machina.
- _joel 3mo agoMore dolphin-y than fishy, it's ultrasound after all :)
- AyyEye 3mo agoThey hallucinate images for a living, of course making a medical imager is fishy (to put it extremely nicely).
- DavidHolz 3mo agoThere's no AI in anything right now, we're just using physics based classical algorithms. It makes sense to eventually use AI but in the context of like initializing a physics solver to reduce the step-count.
- jona-f 3mo agosilicon valley startup caricature in the style of a youtube influencer, glossy, moving picture, edgy, narcissistic, hyperunrealistic
- sparklingmango 3mo agoYes. We are right to be suspicious due to the main goal of start ups and corporations: profit for their shareholders. Theranos will always be in the back of my mind regarding healthcare technology start ups.
- DavidHolz 3mo agoWe have no investors! We're doing this with our own money because it seems like a good thing to do :)
- pcrh 3mo agoThere's a risk of echos of Theranos here. A paper apparently describing this ultrasound approach has been uploaded to arXiv [0]. If so, the resolution demonstrated is nowhere near sufficient to detect small changes to anatomy, let alone monitor them over time. Future developments could obviously improve on that. [0] “Whole Cross-Sectional Human Ultrasound Tomography” https://arxiv.org/pdf/2307.00110 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2307.00110
- warpdude 3mo agoone of the lead paper authors (jinhua xu) works at midjourney, appears in the video, and comments specifically on how the midjourney approach is the next, significantly better-funded iteration of the paper approach
- itake 3mo agotrue, but he doesn't say if it will meet the threshold of 'useful'
- _joel 3mo agoIf you watch the video, the original prototype had hand built piezoelectic array, which was a complete pain and nowhere near as good as the current revision. This one uses COTS hardware, just lots (40+) of them.
- moralestapia 3mo agoThere's one GIGANTIC difference between Midjourney and Theranos. Midjourney's money is their own. They don't have to lick anyone's boots (or worse) just to put bread on the table. Don't ever confuse actual innovators with low-tier VC scammers. Because of that, I'm massively bullish on them.
- IshKebab 3mo agoThis definitely isn't another Theranos. Theranos claimed to have a blood test that didn't actually exist. This is "just" standard ultrasound but with a much wider aperture than normal. There's no new science, it's just engineering that nobody else has put the effort in to actually do.
- Fraterkes 3mo agoOne thing that’s kinda awkward in the video: they mention one of the big shortcomings of ultrasound being that it can’t image “airy” organs like the lungs, and their expert responds to that by mentioning that the amount of angles/devices means that you still get imaging of everything surrounding the lungs. But the critiscism isn’t that the lungs would obstruct you from imaging certain areas, it’s that there’s just very salient parts of the body that you can’t really image with ultrasound, which means this would not be a full bodyscan even if the resolution was incredible. I think there’s some genuine intent here, if for no other reason than that it seems silly to transition from ai to hardware if you’re purely trying to grift. I just wish they responded candidly to the obvious questions people have.
- IshKebab 3mo agoNot being able to image inside the lungs is probably only a minor limitation really. There's also inside the head, and inside the rib cage is going to be awkward too due to bones. Also ultrasound just isn't that good of an imaging technology, even with full aperture. That said, it's non-ionising and if they can make this reasonably cheap (big if), then it's better than nothing at all. Probably decent for finding cancer, especially breast cancer (no pesky bones there!).
- KaiserPro 3mo ago> it's non-ionising True, but ultrasound isn't entirely benign. Depending on what frequency and what power it can crack solid parts of the body (its used to break up kidney/gall stones) it also can heat things up (which is, assuming my understanding is correct, why doppler scans for blood flow are not done on <18 week pregancy)
- deadbabe 3mo agoI’m just wondering when people are going to realize sticking your body into water being vibrated with ultrasound isn’t a good idea? I used to have ultrasonic cleaner for jewelry and one of the things advised is to not put your hand in the water when it’s vibrating as it can be bad for your bones.
- roer 3mo agoThis skepticism is weird to me. I might be overly naive, but it looks like these are people that have funding for doing something they think is cool and think could help people out. Whether or not it turns out that way is something we'll have to see, but the premise of just going ahead and building the thing should be applauded in my opinion
- jgrahamc 3mo agoI agree. It's very clearly a research prototype and they are talking about getting it working to do body composition.
- bonoboTP 3mo agoI think the negativity is due to the vibes and framing of the "spa" for rich people to hang out and do some low-key "health optimization", it ties to Silicon Valley longevity stuff, pattern matches with the vibe of cryogenics and other quantified self stuff etc, instead of a vibe of making something that broadly improves the health of the masses and lower classes.
- wongarsu 3mo agoAs a business case that looks great. Somewhere between genius and standard practice for most industries. Start with low-volume runs targeted at upperclass customers who can afford the pricetag. Bonus points for a group that has a proven track record of spending unreasonable sums for unproven technology. Over time the user story, manufacturing, parts sourcing, regulatory approvals all get sorted out and you can move down into bigger and bigger markets and lower and lower price points Of course that risks being associated with all the crap the same high-spenders spend their cash on
- iamleppert 3mo agoI wouldn't want to get into a medical scanner built by an AI image generation company! Marketed as a spa treatment. There are so many things that can go wrong and the unseriousness around the whole thing bothers me.
- xnx 3mo agoThe new scanning technique is very fancy, but it sounds like people might be better of with boring full body visual imaging to check for skin cancer. If they want an AI angle to that, Midjourney could easily make a digital twin from the scan.
- wongarsu 3mo agoHow is only scanning the outside better than checking the inside? Sure, visual imaging is cheap and high-definition, but it's also a pretty low value product. People can already see the outside of their body. Instead of a fancy full-body visual scanner just give them a pamphlet which things are normal, which are abnormal but harmless and which need a doctor visit. Seeing the inside of your body on the other hand opens up a lot of things you previously couldn't see. We have to be careful not to overreact and try to "fix" all bodies to fit the image printed in the textbook. But the potential to do real good is huge
- fusslo 3mo agoGood to see Mr. Valente is doing well
- micromacrofoot 3mo agogetting serious theranos vibes from this
- wongarsu 3mo agoTheranos was claiming things that would be incredibly useful, with technology that doesn't work. This is claiming things of uncertain usefulness, with technology that does work The common thread is commoditization of medical technology to enable more frequent and useful testing. But 3d ultrasound machines exist and Midjourney's setup looks completely plausible. Their big bet is that it's actually useful in medical applications beyond better baby pictures