4 ms·

There's no good guys, just entities you might be able to get marginal value from, who in turn want to get marginal value from you

matheusmoreira 3mo ago
No. The "good guys" are the ones who provide permanent value: open weight models, hardware we can afford, purchase and own. The good guys offer sovereignty. The "you'll buy intelligence from us on a meter" rent seekers are technofeudalists. Just a bunch of "you'll own nothing and you'll be happy" oligarchs who must be resisted at all costs. Anthropic had a reputation for ethics at first but it quickly became clear it was just like OpenAI but with a patronizing attitude. The fact China is releasing open weight models will never not be amusing. I expected better from the USA.
- applicative 3mo ago
  The purpose is the destabilization and discrediting of democracy. The Beijing state, in concert with Putin and ex-Khamenei, has no other purpose but to prove there is no democratic alternative. Sure, it turns out you get free things as e.g. one got free RT America.
  - scotty79 3mo ago
    > The purpose is the destabilization and discrediting of democracy. Unless they made US elect trump it's hard to see how they might be damaging democracy more than the democracy damages itself.
  - matheusmoreira 3mo ago
    > destabilization and discrediting of democracy Democracies don't need any help whatsoever in that area, they're more than happy to do that to themselves on a daily basis.
- SubiculumCode 3mo ago
  So... it IS China, not just companies in China. And why would the CCP want to give out open weights, hmm? Because they are all kindness and love? No. It is just their approach to counter dominance in the space by Western frontier labs. No need to make moral attributions..it is everything, and I mean everything, about Great Power Competition.
  - 3fffss 3mo ago
    That is literally the point of world trade buddy... lmao Its just funny how there is some scary boogeyman around China. You do realise the idiotic west gave china everything - from know-how, techniques to IP by benefitting from lower costs of production? What they are doing is pretty fair game.
    - SubiculumCode 3mo ago
      No,it's not just like world trade. It's world trade within strategic good, assets, and, capabilities relevant to national security...e.g. critical minerals, high end chips, and artificial intelligence, and others. Not all world trade is as central to national security, and is only relevant to national security in aggregate. I do agree that the U.S. made bad choices in terms of over-reliance on Chinese supply chains. Too much credence was given to the idea that capitalism would democratize China in the absence of other supporting factors/culture.
    - arizen 3mo ago
      It was not idiotic from capitalism short-term profit gains point of view.
  - matheusmoreira 3mo ago
    Their self serving reasons are irrelevant. The results can be moral even if the players aren't. The key is to somehow prevent any one of them from dominating completely so we can play them off one another and keep reaping the rewards. If China's undermining efforts achieves that, so be it. The fact we're getting permanent access to powerful models as a result is nothing short of awesome. In order for us to win, neither China nor the US can win. The ideal situation is the one where they exhaust themselves trying while we benefit by picking up the pieces.

matheusmoreira 3mo ago

No. The "good guys" are the ones who provide permanent value: open weight models, hardware we can afford, purchase and own. The good guys offer sovereignty. The "you'll buy intelligence from us on a meter" rent seekers are technofeudalists. Just a bunch of "you'll own nothing and you'll be happy" oligarchs who must be resisted at all costs. Anthropic had a reputation for ethics at first but it quickly became clear it was just like OpenAI but with a patronizing attitude. The fact China is releasing open weight models will never not be amusing. I expected better from the USA.

applicative 3mo ago
The purpose is the destabilization and discrediting of democracy. The Beijing state, in concert with Putin and ex-Khamenei, has no other purpose but to prove there is no democratic alternative. Sure, it turns out you get free things as e.g. one got free RT America.
- scotty79 3mo ago
  > The purpose is the destabilization and discrediting of democracy. Unless they made US elect trump it's hard to see how they might be damaging democracy more than the democracy damages itself.
- matheusmoreira 3mo ago
  > destabilization and discrediting of democracy Democracies don't need any help whatsoever in that area, they're more than happy to do that to themselves on a daily basis.
SubiculumCode 3mo ago
So... it IS China, not just companies in China. And why would the CCP want to give out open weights, hmm? Because they are all kindness and love? No. It is just their approach to counter dominance in the space by Western frontier labs. No need to make moral attributions..it is everything, and I mean everything, about Great Power Competition.
- 3fffss 3mo ago
  That is literally the point of world trade buddy... lmao Its just funny how there is some scary boogeyman around China. You do realise the idiotic west gave china everything - from know-how, techniques to IP by benefitting from lower costs of production? What they are doing is pretty fair game.
  - SubiculumCode 3mo ago
    No,it's not just like world trade. It's world trade within strategic good, assets, and, capabilities relevant to national security...e.g. critical minerals, high end chips, and artificial intelligence, and others. Not all world trade is as central to national security, and is only relevant to national security in aggregate. I do agree that the U.S. made bad choices in terms of over-reliance on Chinese supply chains. Too much credence was given to the idea that capitalism would democratize China in the absence of other supporting factors/culture.
  - arizen 3mo ago
    It was not idiotic from capitalism short-term profit gains point of view.
- matheusmoreira 3mo ago
  Their self serving reasons are irrelevant. The results can be moral even if the players aren't. The key is to somehow prevent any one of them from dominating completely so we can play them off one another and keep reaping the rewards. If China's undermining efforts achieves that, so be it. The fact we're getting permanent access to powerful models as a result is nothing short of awesome. In order for us to win, neither China nor the US can win. The ideal situation is the one where they exhaust themselves trying while we benefit by picking up the pieces.