5 ms·

Well, if Nintendo and Microsoft go the same route (and sadly, I see that being almost inevitable at some point), that's probably the end of my interest in gamin

by CM30 3mo ago

Well, if Nintendo and Microsoft go the same route (and sadly, I see that being almost inevitable at some point), that's probably the end of my interest in gaming as a whole. I generally refuse to 'rent' or 'license' things on a temporary basis, and have decided in this generation that every game I'll get for Switch 2 will be a physical game on cart version, without exception. And the reasons for that are pretty simple. I like being able to resell games when done with them. I like being able to lend them to friends, or play them on as many consoles as I want. I like the idea of having something that companies (generally) can't remove due to licensing changes or an always online requirement. This sort of change just feels like yet another step towards constantly renting rather than owning, or streaming games and media without any control over how or when you can use it.

criddell 3mo ago
I'm guessing you know this already, but I thought it's worth saying - some Switch 2 carts only contain a game key and not the actual game. https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/68415 https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/...
- iamjake648 3mo ago
  At least they clearly label them and make them easy to avoid!
- arm 3mo ago
  Even that Nintendo Switch 2 Game-Key Card implementation still works better for parent’s game reselling use case (for a limited time) than outright removing the physical media option as Sony is doing. From the link you posted: “Game-key cards are different from regular game cards, because they don’t contain the full game data. Instead, the game-key card is your "key" to downloading the full game to your system via the internet. After it’s downloaded, you can play the game by inserting the game-key card into your system and starting it up like a standard physical game card. An internet connection is only required when you launch the game for the first time. After this, the game can be started even without an internet connection. However, like regular physical software, the game-key card must be inserted into the system in order to play the game. A Nintendo Account is not required to download the game data.” So lending and reselling game-key cards is still possible in the same way as physical media… at least until Nintendo’s servers stop serving the game, heh.
  - ksjaixjwjx 3mo ago
    Are the download codes reusable then?
    - abustamam 3mo ago
      Game keys and download codes are two separate concepts. You can think of a game key as a transferable license. Download code is a one time license attachment to your account and requires a Nintendo account (I belive)
- fg137 3mo ago
  Unfortunately some switch 2 games are only available as digital download codes (e.g. Split Fiction) even though Xbox and PS5 physical versions are real discs. For now.
- CM30 3mo ago
  Yeah I've seen those, and I deliberately haven't bought any games only available in that format. They're theoretically a tiny bit better than download codes, but the same applies. If this is the format going forward, I'm out.
purpleflame1257 3mo ago
GOG will let you download the offline installer for every game they sell, IIRC.
gonzalohm 3mo ago
What about PC gaming? There are stores that sell you the game and it's yours to keep
- CM30 3mo ago
  Like GOG? Yeah, I'm a bit more accepting of those, since they're DRM free. Being able to just copy and paste from one computer to another or what not is how I feel digital games should work, and how I know they don't work on console.
mywittyname 3mo ago
Counter-argument: I have a Steam account associated with a day 1 purchase of Half Life 2 (so, 25 years or so). Every game I've ever purchased is still available for me to download, while I lost probably 50% or more of my physical games collection. If I'm renting those games, it sure seems like a good deal. I do appreciate that console online market places have not historically been as well managed as Steam. But also, GoG exists: you can buy a PC game and get a DRM-free download that you can play offline and store forever.
- carra 3mo ago
  People have got too used to Steam doing things well, but don't forget that: 1) that's not the norm, and 2) there's no telling when it will change. Gabe Newell will retire not too long from now. Will the next one in charge be so lenient? Don't forget what happened with Unity, for instance.
  - GreenWatermelon 3mo ago
    Unity is publicly traded, Valve is privately-owned and Engineer-led and Gabe is handsoff according to all current reporting, so I think Valve is still good for the foreseeable future. In fact, it's thanks to Valve that I no longer need windows to run games and have finally nuked it from my system a bit over a year ago. So yeah, nothin remains good forever, but credit where it's due, and Valve's DRM is cosmetic at best, and trivial to bypass.
- quacker 3mo ago
  Right. License pulls happen extremely rarely for digital video games[1] And delisting a game from a store isn't a license pull. Delisting prevents new purchases of the game, but owners of a game prior to delisting can still download and play[2] For example, even though Sony is closing the PS3 store to new purchases after 20 years, existing owners of digital games can still download their digital copies. So my entire PSN digital library for the past 20 years is still downloadable and playable. Same for Steam. I love GOG, and prefer a DRM-free digital copy for PC that I can backup redundantly, as it is the most future-proof option, IMO. Physical media can get damaged or lost and digital storefronts won't last forever (even Steam could shut down one day). Even my hard drives can fail and lose data. But even so, when I purchase a digital license for a game, I have good confidence it will be playable for years and years to come. --- 1. Of course, many online multiplayer games have had their servers shut down, after which the game becomes effectively unplayable. But this is a separate problem that isn't solved by choosing physical over digital media. 2. As long as the digital storefront exists and as long the console hardware still works, if I purchased it for a console.
ksjaixjwjx 3mo ago
I agree with you wholeheartedly, however, even buying physical games nowadays is a meaningless practice (one that I still do, mind you, physical over digital, that’s me any day). But with the sheer amount of updates, online checks, DLCs and whatnots, our physical media is nothing more than a pretty case to display on the shelves. They can pull the plug on all of that nowadays just as easily as any digital media. The ideal solution would be an industry-wide change where games should always be required to be able to play as sold on disc—pipe dream though.
- Gigachad 3mo ago
  Even before the era where physical copies became nothing more than license keys, the copy of the game on the disk was a buggy 1.0 release that was expected to get a day one update. So if the download servers go offline, you’d never be able to download the updates to fix it.
  - account42 3mo ago
    Often those patches used to be installers that could be (and were) re-hosted on fan sites.
ytoawwhra92 3mo ago
One thing I've noticed with other streaming media is that it keeps changing in often subtle ways that I just don't appreciate. Albums will be replaced with remastered, "deluxe", or anniversary editions with different versions of the same songs. Movies and TV shows will have different edits which aren't communicated. Songs from the soundtrack get replaced when digital rights expire. Jokes get censored[0]. None of this is communicated by the streaming platforms. You only notice it when you go to listen/watch to that media and realise it's not what you're familiar with. But you've already sold your CDs & DVDs so you have to take what you're given. I'm sure this will start happening to games soon, if it hasn't already. [0] https://i.redd.it/rvghujccsap21.png https://i.redd.it/rvghujccsap21.png
oliyoung 3mo ago
> Microsoft go the same route There's a reason Game Pass and the Series S exist, they just hadn't had the courage to say the quiet part loud yet.
account42 3mo ago
If you care about owning what you buy then why accept consoles in the first place?

by CM30 3mo ago

criddell 3mo ago

I'm guessing you know this already, but I thought it's worth saying - some Switch 2 carts only contain a game key and not the actual game. https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/68415 https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/...

iamjake648 3mo ago
At least they clearly label them and make them easy to avoid!
arm 3mo ago
Even that Nintendo Switch 2 Game-Key Card implementation still works better for parent’s game reselling use case (for a limited time) than outright removing the physical media option as Sony is doing. From the link you posted: “Game-key cards are different from regular game cards, because they don’t contain the full game data. Instead, the game-key card is your "key" to downloading the full game to your system via the internet. After it’s downloaded, you can play the game by inserting the game-key card into your system and starting it up like a standard physical game card. An internet connection is only required when you launch the game for the first time. After this, the game can be started even without an internet connection. However, like regular physical software, the game-key card must be inserted into the system in order to play the game. A Nintendo Account is not required to download the game data.” So lending and reselling game-key cards is still possible in the same way as physical media… at least until Nintendo’s servers stop serving the game, heh.
- ksjaixjwjx 3mo ago
  Are the download codes reusable then?
  - abustamam 3mo ago
    Game keys and download codes are two separate concepts. You can think of a game key as a transferable license. Download code is a one time license attachment to your account and requires a Nintendo account (I belive)
fg137 3mo ago
Unfortunately some switch 2 games are only available as digital download codes (e.g. Split Fiction) even though Xbox and PS5 physical versions are real discs. For now.
CM30 3mo ago
Yeah I've seen those, and I deliberately haven't bought any games only available in that format. They're theoretically a tiny bit better than download codes, but the same applies. If this is the format going forward, I'm out.

purpleflame1257 3mo ago

GOG will let you download the offline installer for every game they sell, IIRC.

gonzalohm 3mo ago

What about PC gaming? There are stores that sell you the game and it's yours to keep

CM30 3mo ago
Like GOG? Yeah, I'm a bit more accepting of those, since they're DRM free. Being able to just copy and paste from one computer to another or what not is how I feel digital games should work, and how I know they don't work on console.

mywittyname 3mo ago

Counter-argument: I have a Steam account associated with a day 1 purchase of Half Life 2 (so, 25 years or so). Every game I've ever purchased is still available for me to download, while I lost probably 50% or more of my physical games collection. If I'm renting those games, it sure seems like a good deal. I do appreciate that console online market places have not historically been as well managed as Steam. But also, GoG exists: you can buy a PC game and get a DRM-free download that you can play offline and store forever.

carra 3mo ago
People have got too used to Steam doing things well, but don't forget that: 1) that's not the norm, and 2) there's no telling when it will change. Gabe Newell will retire not too long from now. Will the next one in charge be so lenient? Don't forget what happened with Unity, for instance.
- GreenWatermelon 3mo ago
  Unity is publicly traded, Valve is privately-owned and Engineer-led and Gabe is handsoff according to all current reporting, so I think Valve is still good for the foreseeable future. In fact, it's thanks to Valve that I no longer need windows to run games and have finally nuked it from my system a bit over a year ago. So yeah, nothin remains good forever, but credit where it's due, and Valve's DRM is cosmetic at best, and trivial to bypass.
quacker 3mo ago
Right. License pulls happen extremely rarely for digital video games[1] And delisting a game from a store isn't a license pull. Delisting prevents new purchases of the game, but owners of a game prior to delisting can still download and play[2] For example, even though Sony is closing the PS3 store to new purchases after 20 years, existing owners of digital games can still download their digital copies. So my entire PSN digital library for the past 20 years is still downloadable and playable. Same for Steam. I love GOG, and prefer a DRM-free digital copy for PC that I can backup redundantly, as it is the most future-proof option, IMO. Physical media can get damaged or lost and digital storefronts won't last forever (even Steam could shut down one day). Even my hard drives can fail and lose data. But even so, when I purchase a digital license for a game, I have good confidence it will be playable for years and years to come. --- 1. Of course, many online multiplayer games have had their servers shut down, after which the game becomes effectively unplayable. But this is a separate problem that isn't solved by choosing physical over digital media. 2. As long as the digital storefront exists and as long the console hardware still works, if I purchased it for a console.

ksjaixjwjx 3mo ago

I agree with you wholeheartedly, however, even buying physical games nowadays is a meaningless practice (one that I still do, mind you, physical over digital, that’s me any day). But with the sheer amount of updates, online checks, DLCs and whatnots, our physical media is nothing more than a pretty case to display on the shelves. They can pull the plug on all of that nowadays just as easily as any digital media. The ideal solution would be an industry-wide change where games should always be required to be able to play as sold on disc—pipe dream though.

Gigachad 3mo ago
Even before the era where physical copies became nothing more than license keys, the copy of the game on the disk was a buggy 1.0 release that was expected to get a day one update. So if the download servers go offline, you’d never be able to download the updates to fix it.
- account42 3mo ago
  Often those patches used to be installers that could be (and were) re-hosted on fan sites.

ytoawwhra92 3mo ago

One thing I've noticed with other streaming media is that it keeps changing in often subtle ways that I just don't appreciate. Albums will be replaced with remastered, "deluxe", or anniversary editions with different versions of the same songs. Movies and TV shows will have different edits which aren't communicated. Songs from the soundtrack get replaced when digital rights expire. Jokes get censored[0]. None of this is communicated by the streaming platforms. You only notice it when you go to listen/watch to that media and realise it's not what you're familiar with. But you've already sold your CDs & DVDs so you have to take what you're given. I'm sure this will start happening to games soon, if it hasn't already. [0] https://i.redd.it/rvghujccsap21.png https://i.redd.it/rvghujccsap21.png

oliyoung 3mo ago

> Microsoft go the same route There's a reason Game Pass and the Series S exist, they just hadn't had the courage to say the quiet part loud yet.

account42 3mo ago

If you care about owning what you buy then why accept consoles in the first place?