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I laughed and cried at this comment. It's so uncannily EU. Just spent 18 months landing an EU enterprise contract. Signed today and sent it back and got an auto

I laughed and cried at this comment. It's so uncannily EU. Just spent 18 months landing an EU enterprise contract. Signed today and sent it back and got an automated message 'sorry will be on vacation til end of July...' This is the fourth vacation emails I got since corresponding with this contact window for the past 1 year.

throw1234567891 3mo ago
Yes, we have more vacation in the EU than people in the US.
- roysting 3mo ago
  [flagged]
  - embedding-shape 3mo ago
    > narcissism and selfishness that is utterly indifferent to the needs of others This has to be rage bait right? What kind of hellscape do you live in where other humans taking vacation and wanting that to be respected is selfish? And how do you not realize the irony in what you're complaining about? Do you never take a vacation where you actually disconnect from your work?
    - nkmnz 3mo ago
      I am German living in Germany and yes, I think not organizing a holiday replacement when you leave for more than a week is a sign of negligence and indifference; but unfortunately, it becomes more and more common to behave in that way. Many projects don't make any progress between mid of June and late August, depending on the number and diversity of stakeholders. I'd like to declare these ~10 weeks "individual contribution weeks" in which no one is allowed to do anything that needs the coordination of more than two persons.
      - dopidopHN2 3mo ago
        Aaah the perfect German neighbors. Always right, always on top of things. What can you do? I guess we're in vacance? Oupsy. *shrug in french* Bisous !
        valesco 3mo ago
        Wait I'm Belgian and it is basically unheard of that a company cannot answer a customer's message for a month. If it is a small company, then the owner will answer. If it is bigger, holidays will be planned so that no interruption will occur. Companies can close completely for a week, usually between Christmas and New Year. That's all.
        nkmnz 3mo ago
        I was referring to (mostly) internal projects in "German Mittelstand". Some of them with external partners. Customers might have the same problem, though, if they rely on the expertise of a single specialist. Regular customer support is usually available 8 hours per day, 5 days per week, but that's not what I was referring to. They usually don't manage projects.
        dopidopHN2 3mo ago
        And its the same in my experience in France. Companies want to survive. But I stand by my ( bad ) joke on our ( beloved ) German neighbors!
        nkmnz 3mo ago
        What are you talking about? I was referring to German companies where we don't have proper holiday replacements for internal projects, as well as for those with external partners.
      - embedding-shape 3mo ago
        > Many projects don't make any progress between mid of June and late August, depending on the number and diversity of stakeholders That's what, less than 8 weeks, in a year of 52 weeks, where things progress slower, and this is supposedly a big issue? And even if you know and understand that these other people are humans too, just like you, this is seen as "narcissism" and "selfishness", that they take vacations in the summer? I'm sorry but this is borderline insane and inhuman, do you never rest? I understand your point of view when we talk about huge corporate entities with thousands of employees, but even SMBs with like 200 employees end up in a situation where people with specific jobs will have to be unavailable for weeks (as again, they're human just like you) and you can't realistically hire people to replace those for just some weeks.
    - roysting 3mo ago
      Is not rage bait even if it enrages you to hear the truth. It’s rather funny how the narcissists come streaming out of the woodwork when you call them out. But I understand it, narcissists have no ability to instant their own nature, i.e. they wouldn’t be narcissists. It’s an inescapable conundrum and paradox. You rather typical deflection and distraction does not change any of what I said and you ignored in typical fashion. Humans taking a vacation is great and I fully support it and wish more Americans could take more vacations, but that’s a different topic you’re distracting with. The selfish and narcissistic aspect is that of the subject post, lack of continuity, especially in a bureaucracy that affects others’ lives. It’s the simplest and most obvious form of narcissism. The fact that you are either unable to see it and are deflecting from it is rather revealing. It is abrasive, selfish, and narcissistic to lack all ability to comprehend that other people’s lives should not be made dependent on whether one person is it is not on vacation. Is literally the height of selfishness … “I don’t care about anyone else or my impact on them”
  - jdiff 3mo ago
    Is this a joke you're attempting? You're raging out about someone else being so narcissistic for not letting you continue on with your whole entire life because they took a vacation?
  - bilekas 3mo ago
    > It’s a common disgusting mentality wide spread across Europe. Yeah it's such a disgusting mentality to appreciate a work life balance and not have work be your entire world. Such a horrible existence. Anyway, I'm off on holidays now, enjoy!
    - roysting 3mo ago
      The fact that you ignore the core of what I said and deflected with distraction is quite telling. I agree with you, but the point was not anything about work life balance; it was about not being selfish, self centered, narcissistic; realizing that others may not have the ability or are not going on vacation at that given time and there should always be someone, especially in a kafkaesque type bureaucracy as Germany, who can assist in accomplishing whatever horrific bureaucratic control mechanism must be suffered to accomplish basic things. My point was about continuity, not you talking about your vacation to rationalize the abuse of others who are not going on vacation but whose life you impact by your absence and lack of continuity, someone else not being able to competently perform your role in your absence, making them have to wait for your return from your work life balance vacation. It’s just narcissism, the disgusting mentality I called out and you reacted to.
      - thih9 3mo ago
        > the abuse of others who are not going on vacation but whose life you impact by your absence and lack of continuity That’s the point - this doesn’t matter and work is organized so that people can go home guilt free. Coworkers should be able to take over; managers are responsible for coordinating vacation time, training and handovers. The customers are free to switch companies.
        roysting 3mo ago
        Talk about narcissism. You don't want anyone to have any guilt even when they adversely and negatively affect others. How about this, you don't put others in a bind or adversely affect them if you don't want actual guilt, regardless of whether you want to feel it or not. This is the kind of messed up mentality that I was saying is so prevalent across Europe, if not narcissism, very much narcissistic in nature... I don't care about anything or anyone else but me and my vacation/time off. And no, please don't try to distract with the red herrings. I am not advocating for employees to be abused; there is in fact a middle ground which I am advocating for, where if you want "guilt free feelings" ... DON'T BE GUILTY of abusing others by not caring about your responsibilities towards them. It does still apply to companies, which, if you have some standing, let alone paid relationship with; have a duty to engage in that relationship. But I am also mostly talking about the bureaucracy, since that is in fact the OP topic, bureaucratic entitled narcissists simply just leaving others in a lurch because they go on a month long vacation, literally causing and costing damages and financial loss to someone.
  - Orygin 3mo ago
    > narcissism and selfishness that is utterly indifferent to the needs of others Oh the irony
    - roysting 3mo ago
      What is ironic about that? There is nothing ironic about that. That's just you inverting and making stuff up out of narcissistic tendencies to deflect from the uncomfortable truth. One person affecting the life of another out of selfish disregard is very much narcissistic, especially when it is an imposed and mandatory requirement that one is unable to affect. Me calling it out is what makes narcissists so activated and animated about it; and trying to deploy their typical deflection, inversion, distraction tactics. How about this, if a bureaucrat's vacation plans are not covered by someone else that can perform their kafkaesque duties, then it means automatic action in favor of the citizen trying to follow the sadistic rules. But that will also not be satisfactory to narcissists because it means they lose control and power over others. What do you think that feeling is that you are feeling on reading my proposal? There should be no risk in it since the system should/would simply make sure that there is always adequate competent coverage and some bureaucratic slave manager can whip the subordinate serf into compliance with whatever sadistic rules and processes that were put in place. But that too will cause narcissists to twitch because that means they will be accountable and have to be competent.
  - throw1234567891 3mo ago
    You wanna talk disgusting? Let’s talk about your president.
- JumpCrisscross 3mo ago
  Eh, Europe has some great service cultures. (There was a recent comment citing an article contrasting its furniture and tech industries I’m having trouble finding.) European tech’s service culture is just distinctly and notoriously terrible, even within Europe.
- falcor84 3mo ago
  It's absolutely possible for individual employees to have generous vacations, while at the same time maintaining a continuously staffed support function.
- ekianjo 3mo ago
  it's more like nothing even happens in summer.
  - thih9 3mo ago
    A lot happens, just not at work.
embedding-shape 3mo ago
How is people having reasonable work place environments related to shit customer support and companies trying to optimize for reducing costs? Seems highly unrelated.
make3 3mo ago
launches suck in the US too. See: every single AAA game launch ever

throw1234567891 3mo ago

Yes, we have more vacation in the EU than people in the US.

roysting 3mo ago
[flagged]
- embedding-shape 3mo ago
  > narcissism and selfishness that is utterly indifferent to the needs of others This has to be rage bait right? What kind of hellscape do you live in where other humans taking vacation and wanting that to be respected is selfish? And how do you not realize the irony in what you're complaining about? Do you never take a vacation where you actually disconnect from your work?
  - nkmnz 3mo ago
    I am German living in Germany and yes, I think not organizing a holiday replacement when you leave for more than a week is a sign of negligence and indifference; but unfortunately, it becomes more and more common to behave in that way. Many projects don't make any progress between mid of June and late August, depending on the number and diversity of stakeholders. I'd like to declare these ~10 weeks "individual contribution weeks" in which no one is allowed to do anything that needs the coordination of more than two persons.
    - dopidopHN2 3mo ago
      Aaah the perfect German neighbors. Always right, always on top of things. What can you do? I guess we're in vacance? Oupsy. *shrug in french* Bisous !
      - valesco 3mo ago
        Wait I'm Belgian and it is basically unheard of that a company cannot answer a customer's message for a month. If it is a small company, then the owner will answer. If it is bigger, holidays will be planned so that no interruption will occur. Companies can close completely for a week, usually between Christmas and New Year. That's all.
        nkmnz 3mo ago
        I was referring to (mostly) internal projects in "German Mittelstand". Some of them with external partners. Customers might have the same problem, though, if they rely on the expertise of a single specialist. Regular customer support is usually available 8 hours per day, 5 days per week, but that's not what I was referring to. They usually don't manage projects.
        dopidopHN2 3mo ago
        And its the same in my experience in France. Companies want to survive. But I stand by my ( bad ) joke on our ( beloved ) German neighbors!
      - nkmnz 3mo ago
        What are you talking about? I was referring to German companies where we don't have proper holiday replacements for internal projects, as well as for those with external partners.
    - embedding-shape 3mo ago
      > Many projects don't make any progress between mid of June and late August, depending on the number and diversity of stakeholders That's what, less than 8 weeks, in a year of 52 weeks, where things progress slower, and this is supposedly a big issue? And even if you know and understand that these other people are humans too, just like you, this is seen as "narcissism" and "selfishness", that they take vacations in the summer? I'm sorry but this is borderline insane and inhuman, do you never rest? I understand your point of view when we talk about huge corporate entities with thousands of employees, but even SMBs with like 200 employees end up in a situation where people with specific jobs will have to be unavailable for weeks (as again, they're human just like you) and you can't realistically hire people to replace those for just some weeks.
  - roysting 3mo ago
    Is not rage bait even if it enrages you to hear the truth. It’s rather funny how the narcissists come streaming out of the woodwork when you call them out. But I understand it, narcissists have no ability to instant their own nature, i.e. they wouldn’t be narcissists. It’s an inescapable conundrum and paradox. You rather typical deflection and distraction does not change any of what I said and you ignored in typical fashion. Humans taking a vacation is great and I fully support it and wish more Americans could take more vacations, but that’s a different topic you’re distracting with. The selfish and narcissistic aspect is that of the subject post, lack of continuity, especially in a bureaucracy that affects others’ lives. It’s the simplest and most obvious form of narcissism. The fact that you are either unable to see it and are deflecting from it is rather revealing. It is abrasive, selfish, and narcissistic to lack all ability to comprehend that other people’s lives should not be made dependent on whether one person is it is not on vacation. Is literally the height of selfishness … “I don’t care about anyone else or my impact on them”
- jdiff 3mo ago
  Is this a joke you're attempting? You're raging out about someone else being so narcissistic for not letting you continue on with your whole entire life because they took a vacation?
- bilekas 3mo ago
  > It’s a common disgusting mentality wide spread across Europe. Yeah it's such a disgusting mentality to appreciate a work life balance and not have work be your entire world. Such a horrible existence. Anyway, I'm off on holidays now, enjoy!
  - roysting 3mo ago
    The fact that you ignore the core of what I said and deflected with distraction is quite telling. I agree with you, but the point was not anything about work life balance; it was about not being selfish, self centered, narcissistic; realizing that others may not have the ability or are not going on vacation at that given time and there should always be someone, especially in a kafkaesque type bureaucracy as Germany, who can assist in accomplishing whatever horrific bureaucratic control mechanism must be suffered to accomplish basic things. My point was about continuity, not you talking about your vacation to rationalize the abuse of others who are not going on vacation but whose life you impact by your absence and lack of continuity, someone else not being able to competently perform your role in your absence, making them have to wait for your return from your work life balance vacation. It’s just narcissism, the disgusting mentality I called out and you reacted to.
    - thih9 3mo ago
      > the abuse of others who are not going on vacation but whose life you impact by your absence and lack of continuity That’s the point - this doesn’t matter and work is organized so that people can go home guilt free. Coworkers should be able to take over; managers are responsible for coordinating vacation time, training and handovers. The customers are free to switch companies.
      - roysting 3mo ago
        Talk about narcissism. You don't want anyone to have any guilt even when they adversely and negatively affect others. How about this, you don't put others in a bind or adversely affect them if you don't want actual guilt, regardless of whether you want to feel it or not. This is the kind of messed up mentality that I was saying is so prevalent across Europe, if not narcissism, very much narcissistic in nature... I don't care about anything or anyone else but me and my vacation/time off. And no, please don't try to distract with the red herrings. I am not advocating for employees to be abused; there is in fact a middle ground which I am advocating for, where if you want "guilt free feelings" ... DON'T BE GUILTY of abusing others by not caring about your responsibilities towards them. It does still apply to companies, which, if you have some standing, let alone paid relationship with; have a duty to engage in that relationship. But I am also mostly talking about the bureaucracy, since that is in fact the OP topic, bureaucratic entitled narcissists simply just leaving others in a lurch because they go on a month long vacation, literally causing and costing damages and financial loss to someone.
- Orygin 3mo ago
  > narcissism and selfishness that is utterly indifferent to the needs of others Oh the irony
  - roysting 3mo ago
    What is ironic about that? There is nothing ironic about that. That's just you inverting and making stuff up out of narcissistic tendencies to deflect from the uncomfortable truth. One person affecting the life of another out of selfish disregard is very much narcissistic, especially when it is an imposed and mandatory requirement that one is unable to affect. Me calling it out is what makes narcissists so activated and animated about it; and trying to deploy their typical deflection, inversion, distraction tactics. How about this, if a bureaucrat's vacation plans are not covered by someone else that can perform their kafkaesque duties, then it means automatic action in favor of the citizen trying to follow the sadistic rules. But that will also not be satisfactory to narcissists because it means they lose control and power over others. What do you think that feeling is that you are feeling on reading my proposal? There should be no risk in it since the system should/would simply make sure that there is always adequate competent coverage and some bureaucratic slave manager can whip the subordinate serf into compliance with whatever sadistic rules and processes that were put in place. But that too will cause narcissists to twitch because that means they will be accountable and have to be competent.
- throw1234567891 3mo ago
  You wanna talk disgusting? Let’s talk about your president.
JumpCrisscross 3mo ago
Eh, Europe has some great service cultures. (There was a recent comment citing an article contrasting its furniture and tech industries I’m having trouble finding.) European tech’s service culture is just distinctly and notoriously terrible, even within Europe.
falcor84 3mo ago
It's absolutely possible for individual employees to have generous vacations, while at the same time maintaining a continuously staffed support function.
ekianjo 3mo ago
it's more like nothing even happens in summer.
- thih9 3mo ago
  A lot happens, just not at work.

embedding-shape 3mo ago

How is people having reasonable work place environments related to shit customer support and companies trying to optimize for reducing costs? Seems highly unrelated.

make3 3mo ago

launches suck in the US too. See: every single AAA game launch ever