4 ms·

The purpose of system is what it does. Can you read their previous musings about the glorious future, look at what they actually do, read Amodei's batshit insan

The purpose of system is what it does. Can you read their previous musings about the glorious future, look at what they actually do, read Amodei's batshit insane nationalistic rants, and say in all seriousness yeah it's the kind of people I want to entrust my entire future life? >you want to prevent China from getting to superintelligence first I don't. Prevent, not even outpace? Why? Seems like you're assuming China "winning" whatever race it is effectively ends the humanity. Right now I think Chinese labs are way more mature about this, and Anthropic is way more dangerous than them. And how does it fit into the "for the benefit of all humanity" narrative we keep hearing? Is China wrong humanity? Who else is going to end up in the wrong part? Are you sure it's not you? >if you drop the assumption that they're lying when they say "we think we are building superintelligence." I never assumed that, I know perfectly who Anthropic are and that they believe everything they say as self-evident, without having any doubts. And I know they're the kind of people who can convince themselves in anything, because they're obviously smarter than everyone else, and become detached from reality. The entire US "AI safety community" was born in rationalist circles and is largely like this, it's a very specific cult. This is exactly the kind of people who are going to create hell on Earth for you and the rest if given even a lick of actual power, and perfectly rationalize it as a necessity.

solenoid0937 4mo ago
[flagged]
- orbital-decay 4mo ago
  >Please actually do a modicum of research into AI safety. Your comment is the equivalent of a patient with zero context, arguing against the position of established medical science. What makes you think I didn't? You're talking like it's self-evident and adopt the condescending tone from the start, without giving any actual arguments why. (I'm not really interested in them as all these discussions are pointless and we had them back in ~2015) >A "cult" implies belief in something unknowable/unprovable. Yes, precisely. Also the gods and religious practices. Rationalists and subsequently AI safety branch invented a religion in a roundabout way. >"The entire medical community was born in medical circles and it's a very specific cult" Medicine is largely based on evidence and real-life observations, unlike AI safety which is based on belief in something that doesn't exist and some unprovable lore that is entirely rationalized without any grounding, and is expected to be self-evident (because it obviously is) and believed by the others. One is science, another is policy. >Are you familiar with the history of the PRC? Yes, I know it extremely well. I also know the history of the US, am familiar with the people who do AI research in the US from before they started doing this, and can see the actual reality.
  - solenoid0937 4mo ago
    > Rationalists and subsequently AI safety branch invented a religion in a roundabout way If you are arguing in good faith you can very clearly reason about any given AI safety take. Case in point, you refused to engage with most of the questions because you know the conclusions they lead to. > Medicine is largely based on evidence and real-life observations, unlike AI safety "AI safety doesn't exist" is certainly a take. > Yes, I know it extremely well. I also know the history of the US and see the actual reality. Why do you think it's better that a country that turns its citizens into a pulp for criticizing the government, and censors most media to control its citizens' thoughts, reach SI before one that is democratically elected and in which you can generally criticize the government?
    - orbital-decay 4mo ago
      I believe I clearly marked my position without necessarily addressing those questions one by one, because it leads to an endless chain similar to ones we used to have a decade or more ago. The problem is that you don't seem to even acknowledge that viewpoints other than yours could exist in principle. I don't know how to reason with people talking about abstract matters like game theory as some ultimate source of truth without even mentioning axioms/grounding, applicability, experimentation, and actual real life complexities.
      - solenoid0937 4mo ago
        No, the problem is that you can't address why a nation that censors its citizenry, puts/disappears dissidents into concentration camps for decades, and makes its own human rights lawyers literally eat their own shit, before raping and/or murdering them - is better suited to reach superintelligence before the US (given that these are the only two left in the race for the superintelligence - I'd prefer the EU.) You haven't provided a consistent counterpoint to any rationalist/safety viewpoint. I could acknowledge one if you actually provided a counterpoint, but you just say "it's a cult and it's wrong" without addressing the underlying argument.
        4mo ago
- silver_silver 4mo ago
  > Do you know how their human rights violations compare to, say, western nations? You have to be joking
  - solenoid0937 4mo ago
    Please do some research on how they treat their own dissident citizens. 57k citizens disappeared since 2013, and another 5k every year. Their human rights lawyers sent to concentration camps, forced to eat their own shit, raped, and then murdered. Mere online criticism of the government gets you a visit from the police and gets you put on the watchlist. Often a few months' imprisonment without trial. This is not even mentioning the fact that most media is censored in China. You are out of your mind if you think China has a better human rights record than western nations.
    - n_kr 4mo ago
      I'm not doubting you but could you provide sources for your claims? TIA
      - solenoid0937 4mo ago
        https://safeguarddefenders.com/sites/default/files/pdf/Locked%20Up%20%28High%20Res%20version%29.pdf https://safeguarddefenders.com/sites/default/files/pdf/Locke... has some accounts from survivors. Also here: https://www.state.gov/reports/2023-country-reports-on-human-rights-practices/china https://www.state.gov/reports/2023-country-reports-on-human-...
    - tripzilch 4mo ago
      You are out of your mind if you're lumping the US together with other western nations when it comes to human rights.
      - solenoid0937 4mo ago
        The race is between the US and China. If the EU were in the race I'd prefer it.
- krthr 4mo ago
  > Do you know how their human rights violations compare to, say, western nations? Yes, I could even say that the violations on the U.S. side have been more numerous and worse.
  - solenoid0937 4mo ago
    Then your humanities education has grossly failed you and you have not even spent ten minutes looking up what happens to Chinese dissidents.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]

solenoid0937 4mo ago

[flagged]

orbital-decay 4mo ago
>Please actually do a modicum of research into AI safety. Your comment is the equivalent of a patient with zero context, arguing against the position of established medical science. What makes you think I didn't? You're talking like it's self-evident and adopt the condescending tone from the start, without giving any actual arguments why. (I'm not really interested in them as all these discussions are pointless and we had them back in ~2015) >A "cult" implies belief in something unknowable/unprovable. Yes, precisely. Also the gods and religious practices. Rationalists and subsequently AI safety branch invented a religion in a roundabout way. >"The entire medical community was born in medical circles and it's a very specific cult" Medicine is largely based on evidence and real-life observations, unlike AI safety which is based on belief in something that doesn't exist and some unprovable lore that is entirely rationalized without any grounding, and is expected to be self-evident (because it obviously is) and believed by the others. One is science, another is policy. >Are you familiar with the history of the PRC? Yes, I know it extremely well. I also know the history of the US, am familiar with the people who do AI research in the US from before they started doing this, and can see the actual reality.
- solenoid0937 4mo ago
  > Rationalists and subsequently AI safety branch invented a religion in a roundabout way If you are arguing in good faith you can very clearly reason about any given AI safety take. Case in point, you refused to engage with most of the questions because you know the conclusions they lead to. > Medicine is largely based on evidence and real-life observations, unlike AI safety "AI safety doesn't exist" is certainly a take. > Yes, I know it extremely well. I also know the history of the US and see the actual reality. Why do you think it's better that a country that turns its citizens into a pulp for criticizing the government, and censors most media to control its citizens' thoughts, reach SI before one that is democratically elected and in which you can generally criticize the government?
  - orbital-decay 4mo ago
    I believe I clearly marked my position without necessarily addressing those questions one by one, because it leads to an endless chain similar to ones we used to have a decade or more ago. The problem is that you don't seem to even acknowledge that viewpoints other than yours could exist in principle. I don't know how to reason with people talking about abstract matters like game theory as some ultimate source of truth without even mentioning axioms/grounding, applicability, experimentation, and actual real life complexities.
    - solenoid0937 4mo ago
      No, the problem is that you can't address why a nation that censors its citizenry, puts/disappears dissidents into concentration camps for decades, and makes its own human rights lawyers literally eat their own shit, before raping and/or murdering them - is better suited to reach superintelligence before the US (given that these are the only two left in the race for the superintelligence - I'd prefer the EU.) You haven't provided a consistent counterpoint to any rationalist/safety viewpoint. I could acknowledge one if you actually provided a counterpoint, but you just say "it's a cult and it's wrong" without addressing the underlying argument.
      - 4mo ago
silver_silver 4mo ago
> Do you know how their human rights violations compare to, say, western nations? You have to be joking
- solenoid0937 4mo ago
  Please do some research on how they treat their own dissident citizens. 57k citizens disappeared since 2013, and another 5k every year. Their human rights lawyers sent to concentration camps, forced to eat their own shit, raped, and then murdered. Mere online criticism of the government gets you a visit from the police and gets you put on the watchlist. Often a few months' imprisonment without trial. This is not even mentioning the fact that most media is censored in China. You are out of your mind if you think China has a better human rights record than western nations.
  - n_kr 4mo ago
    I'm not doubting you but could you provide sources for your claims? TIA
    - solenoid0937 4mo ago
      https://safeguarddefenders.com/sites/default/files/pdf/Locked%20Up%20%28High%20Res%20version%29.pdf https://safeguarddefenders.com/sites/default/files/pdf/Locke... has some accounts from survivors. Also here: https://www.state.gov/reports/2023-country-reports-on-human-rights-practices/china https://www.state.gov/reports/2023-country-reports-on-human-...
  - tripzilch 4mo ago
    You are out of your mind if you're lumping the US together with other western nations when it comes to human rights.
    - solenoid0937 4mo ago
      The race is between the US and China. If the EU were in the race I'd prefer it.
krthr 4mo ago
> Do you know how their human rights violations compare to, say, western nations? Yes, I could even say that the violations on the U.S. side have been more numerous and worse.
- solenoid0937 4mo ago
  Then your humanities education has grossly failed you and you have not even spent ten minutes looking up what happens to Chinese dissidents.
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]