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Most ordinary working people can't afford the cost of installing a system. Even a portable one. Edit: Downvoted because HN users don't understand living payche

Most ordinary working people can't afford the cost of installing a system. Even a portable one. Edit: Downvoted because HN users don't understand living paycheque to paycheque. Talk about an echo chamber.

christkv 3mo ago
What are you on about. They are not expensive at all. What they can't afford is to pay the electrical bill of running one.
- caycep 3mo ago
  unless they also come w/ rooftop solar? new mini splits are way more efficient than older systems as well. insulation in older homes/buildings might be an issue though
- cineticdaffodil 3mo ago
  Ironically- while often having solar on the roof.
- antonkochubey 3mo ago
  My multisplit system costs <€60 a month to run even during the hottest months, which is way below heating costs during winter. And that's keeping entire apartment at constant 22ºC - people with higher "comfort temperature" can keep the bill significantly lower.
- basisword 3mo ago
  I got a 7000BTU one last week. One of cheapest I could find (I suspect some price gouging given the timing of my purchase). Very small, works in one small room. It was about £400. None of my family or friends have £400 sitting around that they can spend on a whim to save them a few weeks of suffering. A huge number of people live paycheque to paycheque and have no savings or credit lines available to them.
Oras 3mo ago
Most people can’t afford private jets, let’s ban them for those officials then
- braingravy 3mo ago
  Sounds good! It was a waste to begin with. They can handle first-class.
ExoticPearTree 3mo ago
A 12K BTU mini-split system is about 300EUR. How is this unaffordable for most people? Even an 18K unit is about 500-600EUR.
- antonkochubey 3mo ago
  Realistically a decent mini-split that won't break in a year and won't make too much noise starts at ~€600-800 + €400 installation in a low-labor-cost country (Latvia), in high-labor-cost countries such as Germany the installation bit might be twice-thrice as expensive.
  - alistairSH 3mo ago
    Relative to buying the house/apartment in the first place, that's still not much money.
- boesboes 3mo ago
  Where? The only mobile split unit i can find is 899
wnevets 3mo ago
Something is very wrong with the EU if ordinary Europeans can't afford a $150 window unit.
- rapsey 3mo ago
  It's not the money. In many places you need to go through permitting to get it and they do not want to give it to you. Often you also need a signed approval from every person in the building.
  - mtoner23 3mo ago
    so yes something is very wrong
  - wnevets 3mo ago
    There is something very wrong in the EU if installing a life saving window air conditioner requires a permit or signed approval from every person in the building.
    - rapsey 3mo ago
      They literally built a new hospital in germany without AC. 28C/82F degrees in surgery.
      - Yossarrian22 3mo ago
        How? I thought hospital AC had the dual role of air filtration to reduce spread of bacteria and viruses
        joe_mamba 3mo ago
        Because when it's "free" healthcare you get what you pay for.
    - basisword 3mo ago
      Yes, something very wrong in the EU compared to the land of HOA's...
black3r 3mo ago
It's not that expensive. There are other reasons why people can't install one in Europe than money. Mostly for people living in apartments. In an apartment building you need the approval of other apartment owners to "modify the building facade". And some people have terrible neighbors. Another thing that happens in Europe is that if the building is 100+ years old, it's facade may be protected as a "historic building" and then you need another approval from some bureaucrats which are responsible for protecting historic buildings. And of course if you're renting, you need to convince your landlord if you want a proper AC not a portable one.
- hparadiz 3mo ago
  People on here will literally write walls of text over the most mundane nonsense. Get a free standing unit like this: https://i.imgur.com/giewYeK.png https://i.imgur.com/giewYeK.png Shove the plastic tube outlet out of a window. End of installation. You're welcome. Seriously why is this so difficult and what is this learned helplessness? You would rather be miserable than do literally anything?
  - black3r 3mo ago
    I have one like that and so do my parents. But they're much less effective than classic split AC with an outside unit. A regular split can cool a bigger room to 24 even when it's 38 outside and is basically completely quiet. A portable AC cools down smaller rooms to ~27 when it's 38 outside and is noisy (50-60 dB).
    - hparadiz 3mo ago
      That's cause you got the cheapest one and think all of them are like that. They come in different power levels and you can in fact find ones that are quiet.
      - 6510 3mo ago
        People don't know which to buy. I got a really big one that doesn't make a lot of noise. I think on dehumidify it can suck 1.5 liters per hour out of the room. I think this because with 98% humidity the 0.5 liter tank is full in <20 minutes. The tank isn't removable, it has a lid 3 cm above the floor. Just low enough that one cant leave a large enough container under it.
graton 3mo ago
> Most ordinary working people can't afford the cost of installing a system. Even a portable one. I just watched a video where a person bought a £200 portable unit. He was using it in the UK and said he spent about £0.89 / day. And I'm assuming they won't use it for that many days a year. Seems affordable enough for "most ordinary working people" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOmzVWTH3xo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOmzVWTH3xo
- scrlk 3mo ago
  As a side note, it's nearly impossible to buy a dual-hose portable AC in the UK and Europe. For whatever reason, the market has converged on inefficient single-hose portable ACs.
  - 6510 3mo ago
    As an oblivious Europian I was breaking my head on how the design with a single hose could be considered good enough. Other funny stuff: - I haven't seen a single portable AC with a hose long enough to reach the window. Some come with tents and plastic things to seal the open window. The machine blows hot air out of the tube and air from outside is inevitable sucked in. If you could only hang the tube a few feet out of the window it wouldn't be sucking in the exhaust hot air back in. - I've seen dozens with barely readable labels on the buttons in poorly contrasting colors. Some also have bright glowing leds next to the illegible text. Even if I switch on the lights (in the middle of the night) I cant read it because the leds are to bright. The buttons are spread out in some artistic arc with a nearly invisible fine line and lack a bump in the sticker they are made from. - People here seem to love swamp chillers, some wet sponge or fabric with a fan pointed at it. Not sure what the ratio is, I think they roughly increase humidity by 10% for each 1C in temperature reduction with some favorable sweet spot above 90% humidity. Then I see a video from an Amish dude hanging soaked bed sheets in front of the window explaining they don't have AC, they don't even have electricity, the wet sheets cut the temperature by 10 degrees apparently.
Markoff 3mo ago
funny take Bulgaria is one of the poorest EU countries and I have seen there way more ACs than in much richer Czechia or elsewhere, this is not about price at all heck, even in Czechia I find much more ACs in some poor cities compared to the richest Prague, I've seen bigger AC ratio per apartment in my small poor ~40K hometown than in Prague, in our 40 units building in Prague I was the first one to have AC, after many years now followed by neighbor under me, 2 out of 40 units in relatively rich Prague, crazy (though it's true our top corner of the building is warmest from all apartments)
- vldx 3mo ago
  More precisely, it’s the poorest country in EU and ~80% of households (highest share in EU) have _at least_ one unit (mini splits). Most households use them for heating also during the cold season. There are no subsidies and/or regulations around this at all. The downside is that it doesn’t look pretty most of the time (unless it’s a new build with infra for multi-split traces). In that context, this whole “europoors” narrative feels like some weird psyop to me.
  - joe_mamba 3mo ago
    >The downside is that it doesn’t look pretty most of the time Neither does Paris with all those white hoses coming out of the windows and windows with tin foil glued to them. At least the Bulgarians have the sanest and most energy efficient option.
- tpm 3mo ago
  But in Bulgaria you need one during at least the whole summer and I suspect also a bit longer, while in Czechia you could have gone without one the whole year and really need one only for a week or two in the summer. So most people didn't think it was worth the expense. Now that's changed and the attitude will change too. In my newish (25y old, well insulated) flat we really started to feel the need to get one only 2-3 years ago. Until then it was nice to have but not necesarry.

christkv 3mo ago

What are you on about. They are not expensive at all. What they can't afford is to pay the electrical bill of running one.

caycep 3mo ago
unless they also come w/ rooftop solar? new mini splits are way more efficient than older systems as well. insulation in older homes/buildings might be an issue though
cineticdaffodil 3mo ago
Ironically- while often having solar on the roof.
antonkochubey 3mo ago
My multisplit system costs <€60 a month to run even during the hottest months, which is way below heating costs during winter. And that's keeping entire apartment at constant 22ºC - people with higher "comfort temperature" can keep the bill significantly lower.
basisword 3mo ago
I got a 7000BTU one last week. One of cheapest I could find (I suspect some price gouging given the timing of my purchase). Very small, works in one small room. It was about £400. None of my family or friends have £400 sitting around that they can spend on a whim to save them a few weeks of suffering. A huge number of people live paycheque to paycheque and have no savings or credit lines available to them.

Oras 3mo ago

Most people can’t afford private jets, let’s ban them for those officials then

braingravy 3mo ago
Sounds good! It was a waste to begin with. They can handle first-class.

ExoticPearTree 3mo ago

A 12K BTU mini-split system is about 300EUR. How is this unaffordable for most people? Even an 18K unit is about 500-600EUR.

antonkochubey 3mo ago
Realistically a decent mini-split that won't break in a year and won't make too much noise starts at ~€600-800 + €400 installation in a low-labor-cost country (Latvia), in high-labor-cost countries such as Germany the installation bit might be twice-thrice as expensive.
- alistairSH 3mo ago
  Relative to buying the house/apartment in the first place, that's still not much money.
boesboes 3mo ago
Where? The only mobile split unit i can find is 899

wnevets 3mo ago

Something is very wrong with the EU if ordinary Europeans can't afford a $150 window unit.

rapsey 3mo ago
It's not the money. In many places you need to go through permitting to get it and they do not want to give it to you. Often you also need a signed approval from every person in the building.
- mtoner23 3mo ago
  so yes something is very wrong
- wnevets 3mo ago
  There is something very wrong in the EU if installing a life saving window air conditioner requires a permit or signed approval from every person in the building.
  - rapsey 3mo ago
    They literally built a new hospital in germany without AC. 28C/82F degrees in surgery.
    - Yossarrian22 3mo ago
      How? I thought hospital AC had the dual role of air filtration to reduce spread of bacteria and viruses
      - joe_mamba 3mo ago
        Because when it's "free" healthcare you get what you pay for.
  - basisword 3mo ago
    Yes, something very wrong in the EU compared to the land of HOA's...

black3r 3mo ago

It's not that expensive. There are other reasons why people can't install one in Europe than money. Mostly for people living in apartments. In an apartment building you need the approval of other apartment owners to "modify the building facade". And some people have terrible neighbors. Another thing that happens in Europe is that if the building is 100+ years old, it's facade may be protected as a "historic building" and then you need another approval from some bureaucrats which are responsible for protecting historic buildings. And of course if you're renting, you need to convince your landlord if you want a proper AC not a portable one.

hparadiz 3mo ago
People on here will literally write walls of text over the most mundane nonsense. Get a free standing unit like this: https://i.imgur.com/giewYeK.png https://i.imgur.com/giewYeK.png Shove the plastic tube outlet out of a window. End of installation. You're welcome. Seriously why is this so difficult and what is this learned helplessness? You would rather be miserable than do literally anything?
- black3r 3mo ago
  I have one like that and so do my parents. But they're much less effective than classic split AC with an outside unit. A regular split can cool a bigger room to 24 even when it's 38 outside and is basically completely quiet. A portable AC cools down smaller rooms to ~27 when it's 38 outside and is noisy (50-60 dB).
  - hparadiz 3mo ago
    That's cause you got the cheapest one and think all of them are like that. They come in different power levels and you can in fact find ones that are quiet.
    - 6510 3mo ago
      People don't know which to buy. I got a really big one that doesn't make a lot of noise. I think on dehumidify it can suck 1.5 liters per hour out of the room. I think this because with 98% humidity the 0.5 liter tank is full in <20 minutes. The tank isn't removable, it has a lid 3 cm above the floor. Just low enough that one cant leave a large enough container under it.

graton 3mo ago

> Most ordinary working people can't afford the cost of installing a system. Even a portable one. I just watched a video where a person bought a £200 portable unit. He was using it in the UK and said he spent about £0.89 / day. And I'm assuming they won't use it for that many days a year. Seems affordable enough for "most ordinary working people" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOmzVWTH3xo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOmzVWTH3xo

scrlk 3mo ago
As a side note, it's nearly impossible to buy a dual-hose portable AC in the UK and Europe. For whatever reason, the market has converged on inefficient single-hose portable ACs.
- 6510 3mo ago
  As an oblivious Europian I was breaking my head on how the design with a single hose could be considered good enough. Other funny stuff: - I haven't seen a single portable AC with a hose long enough to reach the window. Some come with tents and plastic things to seal the open window. The machine blows hot air out of the tube and air from outside is inevitable sucked in. If you could only hang the tube a few feet out of the window it wouldn't be sucking in the exhaust hot air back in. - I've seen dozens with barely readable labels on the buttons in poorly contrasting colors. Some also have bright glowing leds next to the illegible text. Even if I switch on the lights (in the middle of the night) I cant read it because the leds are to bright. The buttons are spread out in some artistic arc with a nearly invisible fine line and lack a bump in the sticker they are made from. - People here seem to love swamp chillers, some wet sponge or fabric with a fan pointed at it. Not sure what the ratio is, I think they roughly increase humidity by 10% for each 1C in temperature reduction with some favorable sweet spot above 90% humidity. Then I see a video from an Amish dude hanging soaked bed sheets in front of the window explaining they don't have AC, they don't even have electricity, the wet sheets cut the temperature by 10 degrees apparently.

Markoff 3mo ago

funny take Bulgaria is one of the poorest EU countries and I have seen there way more ACs than in much richer Czechia or elsewhere, this is not about price at all heck, even in Czechia I find much more ACs in some poor cities compared to the richest Prague, I've seen bigger AC ratio per apartment in my small poor ~40K hometown than in Prague, in our 40 units building in Prague I was the first one to have AC, after many years now followed by neighbor under me, 2 out of 40 units in relatively rich Prague, crazy (though it's true our top corner of the building is warmest from all apartments)

vldx 3mo ago
More precisely, it’s the poorest country in EU and ~80% of households (highest share in EU) have _at least_ one unit (mini splits). Most households use them for heating also during the cold season. There are no subsidies and/or regulations around this at all. The downside is that it doesn’t look pretty most of the time (unless it’s a new build with infra for multi-split traces). In that context, this whole “europoors” narrative feels like some weird psyop to me.
- joe_mamba 3mo ago
  >The downside is that it doesn’t look pretty most of the time Neither does Paris with all those white hoses coming out of the windows and windows with tin foil glued to them. At least the Bulgarians have the sanest and most energy efficient option.
tpm 3mo ago
But in Bulgaria you need one during at least the whole summer and I suspect also a bit longer, while in Czechia you could have gone without one the whole year and really need one only for a week or two in the summer. So most people didn't think it was worth the expense. Now that's changed and the attitude will change too. In my newish (25y old, well insulated) flat we really started to feel the need to get one only 2-3 years ago. Until then it was nice to have but not necesarry.