5 ms·

I know less about the airframe differences across the -400 and -8, but I can say the 747-8 represented a major upgrade in Flight Management Software. I re-wrot

I know less about the airframe differences across the -400 and -8, but I can say the 747-8 represented a major upgrade in Flight Management Software. I re-wrote the Central Maintenance System (portion inside the FMS) in C from scratch because no one had the original detailed design documents. The original -400 code was written in Pascal if I'm remembering correctly. I gleamed what I could from the source and relied on unit tests to get the rest of the way there based on what I knew of the protocol itself. The entire FMS software was completely re-written in C++ and using modern object oriented patterns (at the time). Probably the most fun I've had over my now 20'ish year career. Of course Boeing was pissed with the delays this caused because the airframe wasn't a major change. I'll quote a Boeing (from MD originally) executive as saying "Meeting this project deadline is more important than your child dying." Sadly this was also the time I remember Boeing's engineering ranks began to thin out. Personal opinion, this was a large part of what led to the MAX situation.

wkipling 3mo ago
Awesome. Was this part of the NG FMS program? I find it interesting how the 747 FMS is newer than the 777s yet due to type similarity retains legacy features.
scorpioxy 3mo ago
That executive has lost any human decency and should be fired.
- GuB-42 3mo ago
  Not just human decency. We all know that some CEOs will sacrifice your child for their goal. In fact, many people are ready to sacrifice other people children as long as they are distant enough, war wouldn't be a thing if we didn't. But saying it out loud is another thing, it is, to me, a terrible blunder in terms of communication, and executives who talk like that should 100% get fired. They are the face of the company, what they say and how they say it matters. Maybe it matters even more than the technical part of their job. If they get a pass for saying things like that, that's even worse, because it means that it is what the shareholders and customers want to hear.
  - budsniffer952 3mo ago
    [flagged]
    - watwut 3mo ago
      Of course there is not zero percent chance executive said it. If you dont believe so, you never listened to what people including executives actually say in practice. Trying to insult OP does not make an argument.
      - DaiPlusPlus 3mo ago
        > If you dont believe so, you never listened to what people including executives actually say in practice. Yes. > "I feel liberated," one top banker told the paper. "We can say 'retard' and 'pussy' without the fear of getting cancelled.… It's a new dawn." https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-win-tech-bros-celebrating-180050318.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-win-tech-bros-celebrating-1...
    - callc 3mo ago
      Do you have any reason to back up your claims? See the guidelines “Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.” Just because this story points out that one executive many years ago said something very unsavory is not a generalization for all executives.
    - ElevenLathe 3mo ago
      I don't know why it's so hard to believe. It's well established that people say (and do) very nasty stuff when under stress (see: war). It's also well established that people with power tend to minimize the distress of those less powerful. Between these two, how hard is it to imagine that some mandarin at Boeing would say something like this if he thinks his bonus/summer house/childrens' private school tuition are in jeopardy?
kelnos 3mo ago
> I'll quote a Boeing (from MD originally) executive as saying "Meeting this project deadline is more important than your child dying." > Sadly this was also the time I remember Boeing's engineering ranks began to thin out. These two things seem very related. On a more positive note, awesome to hear an account of the software's evolution from someone who was there.
nehal3m 3mo ago
I hope you replied something like 'No, meeting this project deadline is more important than YOUR child dying, to me this is a paycheck.' That's what I would've been thinking in the shower 2 days after the conversation, anyway.
- microgpt 3mo ago
  Plot twist: manager's child flew on a 737 MAX that crashed
  - none2585 3mo ago
    We can hope but those types tend to fly in private jets.
- tetris11 3mo ago
  I feel like people on HN who have comfortable passive incomes from stocks or other sources forget that people need a paycheck to sustain their lifestyles.
  - lukan 3mo ago
    It seems the poster was aware of that "That's what I would've been thinking in the shower 2 days after the conversation, anyway."
  - JsonDemWitOster 3mo ago
    But if $DAYJOB actually keeps you from your dying kid's bedside, is it still there to "sustain" it? Or is it just leeching into your life?
    - ulfw 3mo ago
      Why do you write '$DAYJOB'?
      - nemomarx 3mo ago
laszlojamf 3mo ago
> I'll quote a Boeing (from MD originally) executive as saying "Meeting this project deadline is more important than your child dying." Given Boeings later history this is pretty chilling...
bigfatkitten 3mo ago
> Boeing (from MD originally) This class of manager is the cause of most of Boeing’s woes.
- bluefirebrand 3mo ago
  This class of manager is the cause of most of society's woes imo This sort of person, given any power, makes everyone's life worse
jeronimobomfim 3mo ago
> "no one had the original detailed design documents" Is this normal for a comany like Boeing? It's not my area, but I would have guessed they would keep the documentation for everything on a product as important as a 747.
- HeyLaughingBoy 3mo ago
  Not avionics, but I've spent most of my career in medical devices. A project's Design History File would indeed have the detailed design documentation of the system. The problem would be that word "detailed." The relevant standards state that the documentation should be sufficient for a normally-skilled engineer to recreate the (software) system, but how stringently that is applied can be very hand-wavy. And then there's the problem of drift where the software changes and the docs are updated, but perhaps not as precisely as they should be, and different people have different levels of documentation rigor. Well, you can see how it ends up 20 years later. I'm actually dealing with exactly this problem on an old project right now :-(
pyuser583 3mo ago
"Meeting this project deadline is more important than your child dying." What was the context? Did someone’s child die?
- jpollock 3mo ago
  I wouldn't think so. Most likely using a crass phrase to instill a feeling of urgency. Probably didn't work. Remembered though.
MisterTea 3mo ago
> The original -400 code was written in Pascal if I'm remembering correctly. Could it have been Ada 83?

wkipling 3mo ago

Awesome. Was this part of the NG FMS program? I find it interesting how the 747 FMS is newer than the 777s yet due to type similarity retains legacy features.

scorpioxy 3mo ago

That executive has lost any human decency and should be fired.

GuB-42 3mo ago
Not just human decency. We all know that some CEOs will sacrifice your child for their goal. In fact, many people are ready to sacrifice other people children as long as they are distant enough, war wouldn't be a thing if we didn't. But saying it out loud is another thing, it is, to me, a terrible blunder in terms of communication, and executives who talk like that should 100% get fired. They are the face of the company, what they say and how they say it matters. Maybe it matters even more than the technical part of their job. If they get a pass for saying things like that, that's even worse, because it means that it is what the shareholders and customers want to hear.
- budsniffer952 3mo ago
  [flagged]
  - watwut 3mo ago
    Of course there is not zero percent chance executive said it. If you dont believe so, you never listened to what people including executives actually say in practice. Trying to insult OP does not make an argument.
    - DaiPlusPlus 3mo ago
      > If you dont believe so, you never listened to what people including executives actually say in practice. Yes. > "I feel liberated," one top banker told the paper. "We can say 'retard' and 'pussy' without the fear of getting cancelled.… It's a new dawn." https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-win-tech-bros-celebrating-180050318.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-win-tech-bros-celebrating-1...
  - callc 3mo ago
    Do you have any reason to back up your claims? See the guidelines “Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.” Just because this story points out that one executive many years ago said something very unsavory is not a generalization for all executives.
  - ElevenLathe 3mo ago
    I don't know why it's so hard to believe. It's well established that people say (and do) very nasty stuff when under stress (see: war). It's also well established that people with power tend to minimize the distress of those less powerful. Between these two, how hard is it to imagine that some mandarin at Boeing would say something like this if he thinks his bonus/summer house/childrens' private school tuition are in jeopardy?

kelnos 3mo ago

> I'll quote a Boeing (from MD originally) executive as saying "Meeting this project deadline is more important than your child dying." > Sadly this was also the time I remember Boeing's engineering ranks began to thin out. These two things seem very related. On a more positive note, awesome to hear an account of the software's evolution from someone who was there.

nehal3m 3mo ago

I hope you replied something like 'No, meeting this project deadline is more important than YOUR child dying, to me this is a paycheck.' That's what I would've been thinking in the shower 2 days after the conversation, anyway.

microgpt 3mo ago
Plot twist: manager's child flew on a 737 MAX that crashed
- none2585 3mo ago
  We can hope but those types tend to fly in private jets.
tetris11 3mo ago
I feel like people on HN who have comfortable passive incomes from stocks or other sources forget that people need a paycheck to sustain their lifestyles.
- lukan 3mo ago
  It seems the poster was aware of that "That's what I would've been thinking in the shower 2 days after the conversation, anyway."
- JsonDemWitOster 3mo ago
  But if $DAYJOB actually keeps you from your dying kid's bedside, is it still there to "sustain" it? Or is it just leeching into your life?
  - ulfw 3mo ago
    Why do you write '$DAYJOB'?
    - nemomarx 3mo ago

laszlojamf 3mo ago

> I'll quote a Boeing (from MD originally) executive as saying "Meeting this project deadline is more important than your child dying." Given Boeings later history this is pretty chilling...

bigfatkitten 3mo ago

> Boeing (from MD originally) This class of manager is the cause of most of Boeing’s woes.

bluefirebrand 3mo ago
This class of manager is the cause of most of society's woes imo This sort of person, given any power, makes everyone's life worse

jeronimobomfim 3mo ago

> "no one had the original detailed design documents" Is this normal for a comany like Boeing? It's not my area, but I would have guessed they would keep the documentation for everything on a product as important as a 747.

HeyLaughingBoy 3mo ago
Not avionics, but I've spent most of my career in medical devices. A project's Design History File would indeed have the detailed design documentation of the system. The problem would be that word "detailed." The relevant standards state that the documentation should be sufficient for a normally-skilled engineer to recreate the (software) system, but how stringently that is applied can be very hand-wavy. And then there's the problem of drift where the software changes and the docs are updated, but perhaps not as precisely as they should be, and different people have different levels of documentation rigor. Well, you can see how it ends up 20 years later. I'm actually dealing with exactly this problem on an old project right now :-(

pyuser583 3mo ago

"Meeting this project deadline is more important than your child dying." What was the context? Did someone’s child die?

jpollock 3mo ago
I wouldn't think so. Most likely using a crass phrase to instill a feeling of urgency. Probably didn't work. Remembered though.

MisterTea 3mo ago

> The original -400 code was written in Pascal if I'm remembering correctly. Could it have been Ada 83?