3 ms·

Isn't this just Pollarding and/or Coppicing, which have been practiced for at least 2000 years in Europe (and probably many other cultures as well), with a heal

Isn't this just Pollarding and/or Coppicing, which have been practiced for at least 2000 years in Europe (and probably many other cultures as well), with a healthy dose of orientalism added on top?

grey-area 3mo ago
Yes it is.
thrownawaysz 3mo ago
>with a healthy dose of orientalism added on top Also known as 'Thing, Japan'. HN eats up articles like this every single week. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/thing-japan https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/thing-japan
- jrowen 3mo ago
  This is such an interesting subtext. I think the original comment was a bit unfair to call it "just pollarding," at the least it's a very specific subtype that has its own culture and clear uniqueness. Your comment feels somewhat reductive as well, you could basically replace "Japan" with a lot of things that are appreciated by some sizable subset of HN readers. But, for some reason Japan does seem to inspire a certain fervor in both the otakus and weeaboos and their inverses. I think it's because it's the closest thing to an alien civilization for Westerners.
- chmod775 3mo ago
  If it makes you feel any better, the reverse holds as well. Grass is greener mentality exists everywhere.
  - IAmBroom 3mo ago
    I remember in the 1990s watching a bit of British TV, where an ad asked, "What do women in Los Angeles know about beauty that British women don't?" (obviously selling some "secret" "American" product). In LA those are either French or Italian women, selfishly hoarding all the good skin cream. I then wondered who the French and Italian women think are the beauty-secret-holders...
- quadrifoliate 3mo ago
  > Also known as 'Thing, Japan'. HN eats up articles like this every single week. And invariably the top comment is a "Thing Also in Europe/US" smugly citing that the commenter knows about something that's vaguely similar which happens to be in their neck of woods rather than Japan; and therefore makes the article irrelevant (this part is never adequately explained). The most recent one I remember was reacting to something about konbinis by saying "So what, Poland also has lots of convenience stores".
  - b112 3mo ago
    What! Well thats absurd. Canada has more convenience stores than Poland!
broken-kebab 3mo ago
Yes, it's exactly it. But call it 'giant bonsai', and it sounds like a new discovery.
- cwillu 3mo ago
  Well, except for the part where it depends on a mutation.
  - jibal 3mo ago
    It doesn't depend on a mutation.
    - cwillu 3mo ago
      “It is a little different, more like pollarding, and it doesn't work with any other conifers than saplings from one specific mutant cedar in a shrine near Kyoto.” https://xcancel.com/wrathofgnon/status/1250287741247426565 https://xcancel.com/wrathofgnon/status/1250287741247426565
      - deleted 3mo ago
        [deleted]
  - broken-kebab 3mo ago
    Unless you believe that Japanese version makes trees mutate, it's still pollarding.
    - cwillu 3mo ago
      The japanese version depends on propogating a specific mutated variant.
      - broken-kebab 3mo ago
        Yes. It's exactly like how it works everywhere, though? You can't pollard any tree, it needs to have genetically predetermined ability to sprout from the stump.
cwillu 3mo ago
From the twitter thread this was stolen from: “It is a little different, more like pollarding, and it doesn't work with any other conifers than saplings from one specific mutant cedar in a shrine near Kyoto.” https://xcancel.com/wrathofgnon/status/1250287741247426565 https://xcancel.com/wrathofgnon/status/1250287741247426565
stymaar 3mo ago
Are coppicing and pollarding used at all to produce timber? I had the impression that it was done only to make firewood, and was cut repeatedly without letting it grow like described in the article.
- WillAdams 3mo ago
  Coppicing is used for lumber for baskets and other weaving techniques, at least in Appalachia.
- jamiecurle 3mo ago
  Ben Law in the UK used a sweet chestnut coppice as timbers for his house. Done properly coppicing can not only produce renewable and sustainable timber, but it is one of the only woodland management techniques that has significant positive impact on the ecology of the woodland in which it is practiced. https://ben-law.co.uk/ https://ben-law.co.uk/
  - sandworm101 3mo ago
    Some of the big "evil" forestry practices are now known to be helpful. Even clearcutting, if done in strips, is know to open up diverse habitats, replacing a uniform forest with a more varied one more amenable to animals.
    - jamiecurle 3mo ago
      I agree. In reality the only "evil" forestry practice in my mind practices are illegal logging. When everything is done by the book (my context is the UK) then there's a 10 year management plan (normally), felling license (always) and a re-stock agreement (always). It's a crop, but the public don't get that message and tend to view harvesting as an ecological tragedy. The clearcutting in strips is referred to as strip felling in the UK. Another one used increasingly more is continuous cover[0]. With a few narrow exceptions most timber crops in the the UK are monocultures or very limited mixes of pines/spruces/firs which outside of nesting season support very limited ecosystem. Even then the management plan for the site would have to account for species present and respond accordingly. Badgers? 20m no go zone from their sett and it may involve another license from Natural England. I tend to operate at the border of woodland management and forestry. Coppicing typically tends to fall into the woodland management category due to the smaller scale nature of it, especially for when it is for "green woodworking" or craft use. The larger scale biomass coppice sites are very firmly in the forestry size, but still retain the ecological benefits to an extent. [0]: https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/research/continuous-cover-silviculture/ https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/research/continuous-cover-...
physicalecon 3mo ago
[dead]
Dibby053 3mo ago
Looks more advanced than simple pollarding. I have never seen this kind of straight, tall tree tops in Europe. If it exists I would like to know!
- dyauspitr 3mo ago
  It is more intensive and aesthetic but functionally I believe it’s exactly the same.
quadrifoliate 3mo ago
Please link a photo of a coppice/pollard in Europe that's as straight as this, along with the location where I can see it. If you do, I have got a great new travel destination. If you don't then everyone else (and hopefully you too) will understand why people think this is special enough to link beyond the fact that it happens to be in Japan.
- ruszki 3mo ago
  The parent commenter rightfully criticizes these kinds of sentences: > Necessity being the mother of invention, this led to the creation of an ingenious solution: daisugi, the growing of additional trees, in effect, out of existing trees — creating, in other words, a kind of giant bonsai. It tries to sell something as completely unique. It’s not. For example this sentence should emphasize what’s unique with daisugi, because there is a very good English word with this exact same meaning as written in this sentence: grafting.
  - quadrifoliate 3mo ago
    > there is a very good English word with this exact same meaning as written in this sentence: grafting. Grafting is joining cuttings from one tree to a rootstock of another. That is not what's going on here at all, it's limited to a single tree. Something like "selective pollarding", maybe, but that's very far from being a common English word. And as I said, most pollarding I have seen is nowhere as straight and tall as this.
    - ruszki 3mo ago
      Exactly. Which you cannot possibly know from the cited sentence.

Isn't this just Pollarding and/or Coppicing, which have been practiced for at least 2000 years in Europe (and probably many other cultures as well), with a healthy dose of orientalism added on top?

grey-area 3mo ago

Yes it is.

thrownawaysz 3mo ago

>with a healthy dose of orientalism added on top Also known as 'Thing, Japan'. HN eats up articles like this every single week. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/thing-japan https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/thing-japan

jrowen 3mo ago
This is such an interesting subtext. I think the original comment was a bit unfair to call it "just pollarding," at the least it's a very specific subtype that has its own culture and clear uniqueness. Your comment feels somewhat reductive as well, you could basically replace "Japan" with a lot of things that are appreciated by some sizable subset of HN readers. But, for some reason Japan does seem to inspire a certain fervor in both the otakus and weeaboos and their inverses. I think it's because it's the closest thing to an alien civilization for Westerners.
chmod775 3mo ago
If it makes you feel any better, the reverse holds as well. Grass is greener mentality exists everywhere.
- IAmBroom 3mo ago
  I remember in the 1990s watching a bit of British TV, where an ad asked, "What do women in Los Angeles know about beauty that British women don't?" (obviously selling some "secret" "American" product). In LA those are either French or Italian women, selfishly hoarding all the good skin cream. I then wondered who the French and Italian women think are the beauty-secret-holders...
quadrifoliate 3mo ago
> Also known as 'Thing, Japan'. HN eats up articles like this every single week. And invariably the top comment is a "Thing Also in Europe/US" smugly citing that the commenter knows about something that's vaguely similar which happens to be in their neck of woods rather than Japan; and therefore makes the article irrelevant (this part is never adequately explained). The most recent one I remember was reacting to something about konbinis by saying "So what, Poland also has lots of convenience stores".
- b112 3mo ago
  What! Well thats absurd. Canada has more convenience stores than Poland!

broken-kebab 3mo ago

Yes, it's exactly it. But call it 'giant bonsai', and it sounds like a new discovery.

cwillu 3mo ago
Well, except for the part where it depends on a mutation.
- jibal 3mo ago
  It doesn't depend on a mutation.
  - cwillu 3mo ago
    “It is a little different, more like pollarding, and it doesn't work with any other conifers than saplings from one specific mutant cedar in a shrine near Kyoto.” https://xcancel.com/wrathofgnon/status/1250287741247426565 https://xcancel.com/wrathofgnon/status/1250287741247426565
    - deleted 3mo ago
      [deleted]
- broken-kebab 3mo ago
  Unless you believe that Japanese version makes trees mutate, it's still pollarding.
  - cwillu 3mo ago
    The japanese version depends on propogating a specific mutated variant.
    - broken-kebab 3mo ago
      Yes. It's exactly like how it works everywhere, though? You can't pollard any tree, it needs to have genetically predetermined ability to sprout from the stump.

cwillu 3mo ago

From the twitter thread this was stolen from: “It is a little different, more like pollarding, and it doesn't work with any other conifers than saplings from one specific mutant cedar in a shrine near Kyoto.” https://xcancel.com/wrathofgnon/status/1250287741247426565 https://xcancel.com/wrathofgnon/status/1250287741247426565

stymaar 3mo ago

Are coppicing and pollarding used at all to produce timber? I had the impression that it was done only to make firewood, and was cut repeatedly without letting it grow like described in the article.

WillAdams 3mo ago
Coppicing is used for lumber for baskets and other weaving techniques, at least in Appalachia.
jamiecurle 3mo ago
Ben Law in the UK used a sweet chestnut coppice as timbers for his house. Done properly coppicing can not only produce renewable and sustainable timber, but it is one of the only woodland management techniques that has significant positive impact on the ecology of the woodland in which it is practiced. https://ben-law.co.uk/ https://ben-law.co.uk/
- sandworm101 3mo ago
  Some of the big "evil" forestry practices are now known to be helpful. Even clearcutting, if done in strips, is know to open up diverse habitats, replacing a uniform forest with a more varied one more amenable to animals.
  - jamiecurle 3mo ago
    I agree. In reality the only "evil" forestry practice in my mind practices are illegal logging. When everything is done by the book (my context is the UK) then there's a 10 year management plan (normally), felling license (always) and a re-stock agreement (always). It's a crop, but the public don't get that message and tend to view harvesting as an ecological tragedy. The clearcutting in strips is referred to as strip felling in the UK. Another one used increasingly more is continuous cover[0]. With a few narrow exceptions most timber crops in the the UK are monocultures or very limited mixes of pines/spruces/firs which outside of nesting season support very limited ecosystem. Even then the management plan for the site would have to account for species present and respond accordingly. Badgers? 20m no go zone from their sett and it may involve another license from Natural England. I tend to operate at the border of woodland management and forestry. Coppicing typically tends to fall into the woodland management category due to the smaller scale nature of it, especially for when it is for "green woodworking" or craft use. The larger scale biomass coppice sites are very firmly in the forestry size, but still retain the ecological benefits to an extent. [0]: https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/research/continuous-cover-silviculture/ https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/research/continuous-cover-...

physicalecon 3mo ago

[dead]

Dibby053 3mo ago

Looks more advanced than simple pollarding. I have never seen this kind of straight, tall tree tops in Europe. If it exists I would like to know!

dyauspitr 3mo ago
It is more intensive and aesthetic but functionally I believe it’s exactly the same.

quadrifoliate 3mo ago

Please link a photo of a coppice/pollard in Europe that's as straight as this, along with the location where I can see it. If you do, I have got a great new travel destination. If you don't then everyone else (and hopefully you too) will understand why people think this is special enough to link beyond the fact that it happens to be in Japan.

ruszki 3mo ago
The parent commenter rightfully criticizes these kinds of sentences: > Necessity being the mother of invention, this led to the creation of an ingenious solution: daisugi, the growing of additional trees, in effect, out of existing trees — creating, in other words, a kind of giant bonsai. It tries to sell something as completely unique. It’s not. For example this sentence should emphasize what’s unique with daisugi, because there is a very good English word with this exact same meaning as written in this sentence: grafting.
- quadrifoliate 3mo ago
  > there is a very good English word with this exact same meaning as written in this sentence: grafting. Grafting is joining cuttings from one tree to a rootstock of another. That is not what's going on here at all, it's limited to a single tree. Something like "selective pollarding", maybe, but that's very far from being a common English word. And as I said, most pollarding I have seen is nowhere as straight and tall as this.
  - ruszki 3mo ago
    Exactly. Which you cannot possibly know from the cited sentence.